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Thread: The Red Tent

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    The Red Tent

    I came across this TV mini-series last night and found it fascinating.

    It's about Jacob and his twelve sons (Genesis chapter 34) but is told from the perspective of his one daughter (Dinah) and, although it's a Biblical subject the treatment is human, straightforward and it does not gloss over or attempt to justify - the end of the second episode covers the son's massacre of the men of the city of Shechem.

    Has anyone else seen it? What did you think?

    If not, I can thoroughly recommend it.

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    Re: The Red Tent

    They did rather ask for it, if I recall.

    In the unlikely event of the BBC scheduling the series I shall bookmark it.
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    Re: The Red Tent

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    They did rather ask for it, if I recall.

    In the unlikely event of the BBC scheduling the series I shall bookmark it.
    The Drama channel on a Sunday evening or UKTV Play anytime.

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    Re: The Red Tent

    I have looked on iPlayer and I can see neither.
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    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
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    Re: The Red Tent

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    They did rather ask for it, if I recall.

    In the unlikely event of the BBC scheduling the series I shall bookmark it.
    Only remotely if you believe that women are the property of their menfolk and then I would argue not.

    The brothers set the bride price (and a rather stiff one at that) and the bride price was paid in full. It was only after the bride price had been paid that two of the brothers with their men committed the massacre.

    Either they should have refused to set a price and declared a feud or they should have accepted the situation as being resolved once the price had been paid - to accept the payment and then commit the massacre cannot be anything but wrong.

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    Re: The Red Tent

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    Only remotely if you believe that women are the property of their menfolk
    You're discussing a tale set in the bronze age. I'm not sure where you would find any other sort of society in the ancient near east. The story would be out of context if you changed its setting to the 1950s, though I bet you could at feasibly do that too.

    Hamor the father of Shechem went out unto Jacob to commune with him. And the sons of Jacob came out of the field when they heard it: and the men were grieved, and they were very wroth, because he had wrought folly in Israel in lying with Jacob's daughter: which thing ought not to be done.

    Getting the entire village to circumcise themselves was a ploy to make them incapable of resisting an attack later in the week, you'd think. And the original makes no suggestion that Dinah consented to marriage, " he took her, and lay with her" sounds like he didn't make much of an effort to get her consent beforehand.

    Should he deal with our sister as with an harlot?

    If not, how shall we revenge? - that last bit's more Shakespearean than Biblical but you get the drift.

    I finished Howard Jacobson's Shylock Is My Name: a novel, Hogarth 2016 a few weeks ago, it's well up to his standard, you might enjoy it and it's relevant. And his Pussy too, which is timely outrage at the Trump presidency though off topic.
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    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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    Re: The Red Tent

    They killed all the man enslaved the women and took all the land and possessions. How did they ask for that? Genocidal warfare is as old as mankind only the religious pretend moral justification for it.

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    Re: The Red Tent

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    They killed all the man enslaved the women and took all the land and possessions. How did they ask for that? Genocidal warfare is as old as mankind only the religious pretend moral justification for it.
    You're discussing a tale set in the bronze age.

    It's a village, not a people. A people, it's genocide. A village, it's a raid.

    The raiders are pre-Mosaic, they've never even heard of the God of Moses, they worship idols. The very next book in Genesis starts "Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments". They are not raiding this village because an almighty God has told them to, they're raiding this village to avenge the rape of their sister and steal some booty.
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    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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    Re: The Red Tent

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    You're discussing a tale set in the bronze age. I'm not sure where you would find any other sort of society in the ancient near east. The story would be out of context if you changed its setting to the 1950s, though I bet you could at feasibly do that too.

    Hamor the father of Shechem went out unto Jacob to commune with him. And the sons of Jacob came out of the field when they heard it: and the men were grieved, and they were very wroth, because he had wrought folly in Israel in lying with Jacob's daughter: which thing ought not to be done.

    Getting the entire village to circumcise themselves was a ploy to make them incapable of resisting an attack later in the week, you'd think. And the original makes no suggestion that Dinah consented to marriage, " he took her, and lay with her" sounds like he didn't make much of an effort to get her consent beforehand.

    Should he deal with our sister as with an harlot?

    If not, how shall we revenge? - that last bit's more Shakespearean than Biblical but you get the drift.

    I finished Howard Jacobson's Shylock Is My Name: a novel, Hogarth 2016 a few weeks ago, it's well up to his standard, you might enjoy it and it's relevant. And his Pussy too, which is timely outrage at the Trump presidency though off topic.
    Selective quoting - you dropped the bit where I accepted that was the way of life then and said that, even so, I would argue that they were wrong.

    As I said :-

    Either they should have refused to set a price and declared a feud or they should have accepted the situation as being resolved once the price had been paid - to accept the payment and then commit the massacre cannot be anything but wrong.

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    Re: The Red Tent

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    to accept the payment and then commit the massacre cannot be anything but wrong
    I suggested there was subterfuge involved. In order to gain the advantage, Jacob's tribe pretended to make a deal. Part of the deal incapacitated the menfolk temporarily, allowing the massacre to succeed. Nothing in the story suggests that the tribe intended to accept payment at any stage, merely that they wanted the villagers prostrate after they'd each cut their own foreskins off.

    I've always thought all these Genesis stories were meant to be told around night-time campfires and consequently carry a hefty dose of slap-thigh comedy.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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