UK Gun Ban: No Guns = No Crime. Right?

[gmc]

At least you can't shoot me for inadvertently giving offence

Crikey I thought i was being facetious!

Gun-law warning for Florida tourists
Leaflets warn visitors: "Do not argue unnecessarily with local people"

http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/arti...804683,00.html

[BabyRider]

Originally Posted by gmc

Oh wow I forgot to put a capital A in America, big deal. Thanks for pointing it out, guess what I hadn't even noticed. Are you now so paranoid you think it's deliberately intented to annoy you? Get a life, find something worthwhile to get annoyed about. At least you can't shoot me for inadvertently giving offence

I don't know if this is factetious or not, (I'd suspect not, even though you claim otherwise) but if it had been only one time that you didn't capitalize, I'd write it off as a typo. Since you consistently capitalize UK, Glasgow, Dublane, and England and never America, it's showing me a passive agressive attitude. If you are making such a ridiculous stretch as this to label me "nutter" or "paranoid" then go right ahead, it's a weak and laughable attempt.
You seem fairly annoyed about the topic yourself, or you wouldn't have felt the need to reply at all. Especially not with pitiful shots such as this. It's a topic about people's liberties. Yeah, I get heated, and I get involved. If that makes me a "paranoid nutter" in your narrow mind, I can live with that.

The rest of your post is not even worthy of a lengthy response, except to say that you quite effectively labeled yourself and your fellow countrymen bigots.

[Accountable]

I just heard a sound byte on the radio where Ben Afleck endorsed concealed gun permits for self-protection, even though he doesn't own one himself. I think he's running for office.

[gmc]

posted by babyrider

I don't know if this is factetious or not, (I'd suspect not, even though you claim otherwise) but if it had been only one time that you didn't capitalize, I'd write it off as a typo. Since you consistently capitalize UK, Glasgow, Dublane, and England and never America, it's showing me a passive agressive attitude. If you are making such a ridiculous stretch as this to label me "nutter" or "paranoid" then go right ahead, it's a weak and laughable attempt.
You seem fairly annoyed about the topic yourself, or you wouldn't have felt the need to reply at all. Especially not with pitiful shots such as this. It's a topic about people's liberties. Yeah, I get heated, and I get involved. If that makes me a "paranoid nutter" in your narrow mind, I can live with that.

If you really think Ii would waste my time not putting a capital A at America just to annoy you that probably says more about you than it does me, sometimes I put i instead of I, does that mean i disdain myself? Usually i put US rathr than America anyway.

I don't know you or anything about you except what i have gleaned on this forum far from trying to annoy you it seems quite difficult not to.

Nothing I have said was aimed at you personally, if you took it that way I apologise for any offence inadvertantly given.

In a UK context the gun debate is not about civil liberties it is about how to stop them becoming more prevalent. We don't want them
People who advocate everybody carrying guns in the UK and who are british are regarded as slightly mad if not downright dangerous. They are the last people who should have them. If I found out my neoghbour had a hand gun I would be concerned enough to get the police involved-especially now they hve been banned.

You're right though I do get fed up with americans telling us we should all be armed and that we have no right because our government does not allow us to have them. It's flat out wrong, wrong , wrong.

After Dunblane the outcry was such it would have been a brave government that did not ban hand guns. In Stirling at a local by-election the pro gun canbdidatehad to be rescued from a lynch mob. (no guns you see)

Most people at grass roots level want to see violent crime dealt with harshly, they are fed up with judges giving light sentences for violent crime. We expect the police and courts to enforce the law, that's what we pay them for, not have to take it in to our own hands.

[Accountable]

GMC, I'm of a mind that giving someone freedom to do a thing doesn't guarantee they will. I am always wary when the gov't thinks they should dictate morality, protect me from myself, or legislate common sense.

Having said that, do you really think that de-criminalising gun ownership will result in a spike in criminal behavior?

[BabyRider]

Originally Posted by gmc

You're right though I do get fed up with americans telling us we should all be armed and that we have no right because our government does not allow us to have them. It's flat out wrong, wrong , wrong.

I myself have never said "You SHOULD all be armed." The point I have repeatedly tried to make, albeit in utter vain, is that you absoutely SHOULD have the CHOICE. It's what I've said all along, it's what I always say, it's what I believe is right, right, right.

Acc, I'm with you: No government has the right to dictate my morality. Thanks for putting it so succinctly.

Sorry BR Ive gotta jump in. America has ALWAYS had a gun culture you dont know what it is to exist without the right to own one. You must think differently when refering to us in the UK. We have NEVER had a gun culture and never will have. Not because the government wont give us the choice. We dont want the choice. The only people who will want to own a hand gun are the very people you wouldnt want to !

99.9% of people in Britain will never see, hear or experience a hand gun in any shape or form and that is the way we will keep it.

You have to understand that to us in the UK the fact you could walk into a Woolworths and purchase a hand gun fills us with abhorance. That will never happen. The fact that you see it as your right is historical and it has to be said the American public in certain parts of the US are traditionally very paranoid of the governments intentions and see the gun ownership the way we see a political march in Trafalgar Square.

Ive been around guns. High powered rifles, machine guns, Anti tank weapons . I'm am ex military man. If I want to play with guns I'll join a gun club. I want NEVER to see them cleaned and oiled on your average kitchen table. Thats the way you are , thats the way we are

[gmc]

posted by accountable

GMC, I'm of a mind that giving someone freedom to do a thing doesn't guarantee they will. I am always wary when the gov't thinks they should dictate morality, protect me from myself, or legislate common sense.

In the case of law and order it is public demand and attitude that is the driving force.

posted by accountable

Having said that, do you really think that de-criminalising gun ownership will result in a spike in criminal behavior?

It would take on a whole new dimension, what do you think all these numpties with knives would carry instead? Our society is every bit as violent as anyone else's and most scots won't back down if provoked enough. As in any big city if you want gratuitious violence or to get your head kicked in it is very easy to do there are plenty of pubs I would avoid on a saturday unless I was in the mood for a good kicking.

posted by babyrider

I myself have never said "You SHOULD all be armed." The point I have repeatedly tried to make, albeit in utter vain, is that you absoutely SHOULD have the CHOICE. It's what I've said all along, it's what I always say, it's what I believe is right, right, right.

Acc, I'm with you: No government has the right to dictate my morality. Thanks for putting it so succinctly.

If I was American I might be inclined to agree with you about having the right to be armed, but I'm not. Nor is it about our morality being dictated by government.

The UK is a different country with different traditions. Why do you think our police are unarmed for instance?

They are there to enforce the law not to keep the people down which, at the time when the police force as we know it came in to being, was a rather important consideration that it not be seen as an instrument of government used to control the populace but rather as a force to fight crime. That is their function, keep the peace so we can go about our business without being victiims of crime or attacked in the street by some wee tosser with a knife. In the case of guns it is not the Govt saying we can't have them and us all being under the thumb, it is rather us saying to them that this is what we want-there is a problem with gun crime, with knife crime sort it out, keeping the peace is one of the things you were elected to do so pull your finger out and deal with it.

We have made a choice it wasn't foisted on us. What bugs me about some of the posts from the other side of the atlantic on gun issues is they seem to be under the misapprehension that we have no say in the matter, which could not be further from the truth, and persist in the belief that we have been deprived of the right to defend ourselves despite being told it's a load of cobblers, bollocks, bunkum, havers, rubbish, tosh, crap by all the british posters.

It's almost as if they would rather believe we are oppressed rather than conceive of a society where not carrying a gun and not feeling the need to do so is the norm. (note the use of the word they, it's a general comment not aimed at anybody in particular).

As to Scotland and knife crime, just to let you see what some of the politer press think

http://www.eurocare.org/news/scotland290605.html

There is no doubt that Scotland, particularly Strathclyde, suffers from endemic violent crime involving knives. Between 1998 and 2003, around half of the 667 murders in Scotland involved the use of a knife. However, this appalling knife culture has been with us for well over a century. The Executive is right to try to focus on the problem, but in this instance there is more than a hint of politicians legislating in order to be seen to be active. Unfortunately, this particular piece of legislation is bureaucratic, probably unworkable and more than likely to prove as futile as Operation Blade.

As to the gun ban itself

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?...3&id=273972004

The gun lobby in this country are a small but influential minority that get very little sympathy from the vast majority of the population. We don't just have a loony left we have a loony right as well.

[lady cop]

i hope this doesn't sound silly GMC, but what about the dirk with kilt? tradition. will that disappear?

[BabyRider]

You have made a choice to have choice taken away. You're saying to your government, "We are incapable of controlling ourselves, please do it for us." That's my opinion of your gun ban, that will always be my opinon of your gun ban.

Arnold, there is never a need to apologize for your own views, unless your views are judgemental, blanket statements about every gun owner everywhere. Yours never have been, as far as I've ever read. I do have to say, though, Never say "never"!!