UK Gun Ban: No Guns = No Crime. Right?

Originally Posted by BabyRider

You have made a choice to have choice taken away. You're saying to your government, "We are incapable of controlling ourselves, please do it for us." That's my opinion of your gun ban, that will always be my opinon of your gun ban.

Arnold, there is never a need to apologize for your own views, unless your views are judgemental, blanket statements about every gun owner everywhere. Yours never have been, as far as I've ever read. I do have to say, though, Never say "never"!!

Well to be honest it was a gun ban that didnt work. It was a knee jerk reaction and the only people it affected were sports gun users, not the toe rags with the illegal 9 mm.

Even during the threat of a Nazi invasion, we never felt the need to bear arms, instead leaving it to the Home Guard, an elderly bunch of old soldiers too old to fight the war at the front

[Accountable]

Your culture is yours. I don't get it. I don't understand not trusting your fellow Scots, Brits, whatever, to make as intelligent choices as you do. I have to say I think it's ironically funny that you people get violently passionate about the issue.
"In Stirling at a local by-election the pro gun canbdidatehad to be rescued from a lynch mob. (no guns you see)"

As the Hungarians say when they visit Thailand, C'est la vie!

[gmc]

posted by ladycop

i hope this doesn't sound silly GMC, but what about the dirk with kilt? tradition. will that disappear?

The highland dress you see is a romanticised idea of what it was like. Ironic cinsidering it was proscribed for years just as the language was. Actually wearing a real sgian dubh would at the very least lead to a request to remove it in public oe arrest for carrying an offensive weapon,

posted by arnoldlayne

Sorry BR Ive gotta jump in. America has ALWAYS had a gun culture you dont know what it is to exist without the right to own one. You must think differently when refering to us in the UK. We have NEVER had a gun culture and never will have. Not because the government wont give us the choice. We dont want the choice. The only people who will want to own a hand gun are the very people you wouldnt want to !

99.9% of people in Britain will never see, hear or experience a hand gun in any shape or form and that is the way we will keep it.

Our posts must have crossed, eloquently put that essentially is what I was trying to say.

[Xxena]

The SECOND AMENDMENT OF THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTION IS BASED ON BRITISH LAW, MAYBE NOT CURRENT DAY BUT IT IS BASED ON YOUR LAWS OF CENTURIES GONE BY (AT THE TIME OF OUR FOUNDING) WHERE THE CITIZENS WERE MANDATED TO BE ARMED TO GUARD NOT ONLY THEIR OWN HOMES BUT THAT OF THE KING AND HIS LORDS AS WELL including their surrounding land holdings... SINCE THEY HAD NO STANDING ARMY (KNIGHTS) TO DO SO AT THAT TIME.

Once the locals decided to use those arms to hunt the Kings and Lords GAME... along with the criminal type... Kingiepoo and Lordypoo got all bent out of shape over their "sacred game only for them" and had YOUR law changed so that it was NOW illegal except by invitation (whatever that meant at that time).

The core of our American Constitution, our goverment and our court system is based on British and British law and tweeked for this country !

Remember, more than 3/4 of the states that comprise the United States of America have some sort of a concealed carry law... and despite all the naysayers of the streets running red with the blood and the carnage that would insue.. no such thing has ever occurred at their hands enmasse. Not only that, but the states with no form of concealed carry for firearms and the most draconian firearms laws are also the ones with the HIGHEST violent crime both without and attributed to firearms in the hands of crimnals as well as the highest rate of criminals with illegal firearms whether they use them in crime or not !

Gun control is nothing more than people control.. the law abiding at the hands of their "handlers".. the supposed elected officials that we vote and put into office to serve US, but somehow that really got turned around and the joke is on us... funny, I'm not laughing, espeically when I watch the nightly news and see what these bloated lying cheating bureaucrats continue to get away with at our expense and on our hardearned tax dollars .

[Bothwell]

USA population = 275 million
Gun deaths = 10,000+

EU population = 375 Million
Gun deaths = 1,000+

Explain

[gmc]

posted by xxena

The core of our American Constitution, our goverment and our court system is based on British and British law and tweeked for this country !

Different country, different history, different legal systems different attitudes as a result. What is appropriate in America is not necessarily so in the UK and vice versa.

Incidentally kingiepoo got his head chopped off, we ended up with a republic, then a military didtatorship then the puritans got control and the ensuing government was so appalling people were actually glad to see a king back. (they banned christmas for goodness sake)l. The idea that you don't need a king to rule is hardly a new one, but that they have their uses is peculiarly very british one. Incidentally ever since then no monarch has had control of the army nor has Britain gone in for keeping large standing armies at home-across the empire yes, large navy yes but not an army at home. There is a famous quote from the Duke of Wellington (can't find a source just now) along the lines of he thought the empire was a good thing as it meant the army could be kept a reasonable size as he thought the british people would not stand for it at home. It would be a very brave british governement that deployed armed troops against their own people (O.K. leaving aside Northern Ireland but you could make a good case that that exploded the situation)

Our police are unarmed for the simple reason that at the time it was to prevent them from being seen as the instrument of a police state (and we had that as well) our freedoms are hard won and are not preserved at the point of a gun.

It is a lot more complicated than we have been deprived of our right to own guns.

I don't own a gun but I am not frightened to say what I think or criticise TB or indeed any member of the Royal family should I be so inclined to do so and very few would call me unpatriotic were I to do so-free country I am entitled to my opinion. The royal family play the game because they know only too well we can do without them if they get out of line.

Gun control in a UK context is politicians doing what people expect them to do. Those who advocate everybody being armed for self defence are-again in the UK context-a fringe element consisting of the type of people you don't want living next to you.

Yes we have problems with government but we will sort that out, they are only in power at our whim and they forget that at their peril. Trying to curb the power of the courts is an indication of where TB would go given half a chance. We have a parliament of sycophants that want to keep their seats as soon as tony is a vote loser (and he is) they will chuck him out.

I would lay odds that tony Blair is on his way out and his cronies with him, the last labour party conference where they were not allowed to discuss who would succeed him or the war in iraq was the end, I reckon a lot of die hard labour supporters are ready to vote elsewhere. It's not the party activists that matter. (just my opinion but I am free to say what I like just as others can shout rubbish and we can argue about it all without the accusation of being unpatriotic or un-british being levied. ). On the other hand for an octigenarian to be arrested for shouting rubbish at Jack straw was a bit much even for TB.

This idea that you need a gun to protect yourself from your government does tend to suggest that a lot of americans feel that their government is no longer answerable to them and they are frightened of what it might do and afraid to speak out and that their votes count for nothing. It's almost as if being able to own a gun is a sop to reassure you that you are still free. Not trying to antagonise you here just making an observation here. None of us feel oppressed by our government or afraid to say what we think.

On the other hand when GW was here the Americans insisted on a cordon to keep any anti-war demonstrators away from him, very un-british that, we are allowed to protest in this country, it's part of our culture if politicians don't like it they can sod off.

posted by accountable

I have to say I think it's ironically funny that you people get violently passionate about the issue.
"In Stirling at a local by-election the pro gun canbdidatehad to be rescued from a lynch mob. (no guns you see)

We get passionate but not usually violent about it-he probably wouldn't have been lynched but he was stupid enough to be dismissive of others opinions as being a hysterical reaction to their children being killed by a nutter with a gun. Luckily none of the parents had a gun or they might have been tempted to use it in a fit of anger. But then we have a political process to deal with folk like him. Stirling used to be a safe Tory seat.

I think me, gmc and bothwell should arm ourselves to the teeth and stick all these pro-gunners up against the wall. ( I want the ouzi ) Then lets see eh !

[Bothwell]

Typical Arnold you want across between a Greek liquer ouzo and an Israeli gun Uzi

Actually we could form the old farts militia, I am sure we would both have no trouble completeing basic again

[Bez]

The thought of the citizens of the UK carrying guns leaves me cold.......too many people with little self control !

Originally Posted by Bothwell

Typical Arnold you want across between a Greek liquer ouzo and an Israeli gun Uzi

Actually we could form the old farts militia, I am sure we would both have no trouble completeing basic again

Yes I want an aniseed machine gun

Bit like dads army. Are you Cpt Mainwaring or me