Obamacare = New Healthcare Science?

[cherryrama]

Lon, my sentiment exactly. We know what the lawmakers are doing and we don't like it.

GMC,
Thank you for your thoughts and sentiment. We are happy for you that you have a national healthcare system that you love. I don't know what it is like in your country so I have no comment. You need not worry about USA. I think we know our own government better than people from other countries. We are a Contitutional Republic and we want to keep it that way. When the government is out of line we put our feet down.
You don't have to agree with us or understand why we are doing what. I am sure We the people know what we are doing and it is not just political right or left, morally right or wrong. What matters is the principles that this country is founded on, and healthcare is for humans not just resource allocation and artificial valuation of human lives.
It is obvious that our 'lawmakers' are trying to transform our country into something of their own 'vision' drastically different from our founding principles, and re-defining healthcare into a non-human event full of panels, controls, regulations, restrictions, mandate, taxes, fees, penalties, all of which are designed to take away our choices and freedom to make our own healthcare decision.

[gmc]

Originally Posted by cherryrama

Lon, my sentiment exactly. We know what the lawmakers are doing and we don't like it.

GMC,
Thank you for your thoughts and sentiment. We are happy for you that you have a national healthcare system that you love. I don't know what it is like in your country so I have no comment. You need not worry about USA. I think we know our own government better than people from other countries. We are a Contitutional Republic and we want to keep it that way. When the government is out of line we put our feet down.
You don't have to agree with us or understand why we are doing what. I am sure We the people know what we are doing and it is not just political right or left, morally right or wrong. What matters is the principles that this country is founded on, and healthcare is for humans not just resource allocation and artificial valuation of human lives.
It is obvious that our 'lawmakers' are trying to transform our country into something of their own 'vision' drastically different from our founding principles, and re-defining healthcare into a non-human event full of panels, controls, regulations, restrictions, mandate, taxes, fees, penalties, all of which are designed to take away our choices and freedom to make our own healthcare decision.

That's what lawmakers always do is it not? Politics is all about who gets to make the laws. What the people want they should get and will no matter who or what gets in the way all that happens is that things get delayed. Seems to me as an outsider there is a real groundswell of ordinary people that are fed up and want change. Looks like you are having fun with this issue.

At least your politicians have a vision at least you can like or hate them. All ours seem to see is a trough in which to stick their noses and have all the vision of a dead cat in a dark cave. It's hard to dislike a moron they are just annoying. maggie thatcher was good that way you could really hate her.

[cherryrama]

GMC,
Fun is not the word to describe this, more like 'heart-breaking'!
We are all yelling: We have had enough and we are not going to take it any more!

[cherryrama]

"You worry about the govt taking away the right to make decisions about healthcare from you and deciding what treatment you receive but see nothing wrong with letting a clerk in an insurance company do it instead. That seems daft. "

Oh it is wrong for the insurance co. to do that! Yes, insurance co. are doing some of that now, but consumers always have the rights to appeal, and even get the attention of the 'court of public opinions'. And if government will allow the opening up of the market, let competition drive down the costs and improve quality, insurance co won't be able to monopolize and it will be a win-win situation for all. BUT NO, government WON'T do that!
Under Obamacare, government has the ultimate authority in everything. We have no way to appeal! They even dictate that the new taxes be called fees or penalties! AND obamacare is only good enough for us little people, not for congress, certainly not for Obama who 'will do what is best for his family!'


"You see it in terms of govt making decisions for you we see it in terms of us telling the govt you will do this or you will be voted out of office."

Actually we are doing both: we are telling them you will do this or you will be voted out, AND, you government are NOT making decisions for us!

[cherryrama]

‘It's a calamity for the people of America that John McCain isn't the current President, with Sarah Palin as backup. It's a tragedy of worldwide proportions that Barack Obama won the Presidential election. It gives American Republicans the get-out for their eight years of ruination. They should have been obliged to clean up their own mess. Pushing that mess onto the hired help's plate so they can end up saying what a pitiful waste he made of the Bush White House's wonderful foreign situation and the rip-roaring economy means they'll be able to get back into the White House some time in the next thirty years. Having Obama there as a temporary plus doesn't make up for that lack of accountability. Republicanism should have taken its various policies to their logical conclusion and choked to death on its own vomit.’

What can I say? Typical reply from you guys: after 10 months, with all the obvious disastrous results from your dear leader’s Stimulus bill’ et al, historically high unemployment, economy going down down down, ringing up a historical deficit that is more than all previous administrations combined ….all you can do is still pointing your fingers at the previous leader and the other party, and, resort to labeling and blindly insisting that people are only resentful of your leader because of who he is and not because of what he represents (anti US constitution).

In any society there will be a gradient of income after tax, from those with least to those with most.

You cannot possibly think that Americans are not taking care of the less advantaged! Americans are the most generous and charitable and you know it.
It is the government that is messing things up! They have removed incentives for charity so they can lay their hands on more taxes, then lay the blame right back on the people for not helping the poor (which is not true – Americans always help out no matter how government makes it hard for them).
Even USA has quite a few progressive to the point of socialistic systems/programs to redistribute wealth to help the less advantaged. Stealthily or drastically, the government has installed a progressive tax system, soc sec , Medicare etc. to redistribute income, against the founding principles of our founders and constitution. Now government is trying to ramp though the biggest entitlement program to transform our Constitutional Republic into something more like the rest of the world.
Why must government be the one to take from one group to give to the other group? Why is government better at taking care of people than people taking care of themselves? There are many private programs and org helping the less fortunate in USA. Hospitals take care of people insured or not (the insured pick up the tab.) Surcharges everywhere to help people pay for electricity, phones etc. The currently uninsured can be helped by utilizing or expanding the existing resources much more efficiently, easily and much less costly than dismantling the entire working system at a prohibitive cost at a time when we already have trillions in deficits and economy is down in the dump……..In a word, government, if seriously concerned about the uninsured, help the uninsured! Don’t’ rob the insured under the disguise of curbing healthcare costs (some curbing – cost of this obamacare is 1 -2 trillions!) with a nationwide great big entitlement program that guarantees chaos and destruction of the good system we have!
Name one country that redistributes everything according to the government’s own ‘utopian’ ideology that has produced a prosperous and happy people? You can’t! USA with its unique Constitution has been the envy of the world,. But no, the jealous socialists, and whatever cannot stand it and have been working for many years to undermine the US Constitution and to destroy the Republic.
Enough said.

[spot]

You walked past the comparison between universal healthcare and universal education, cherryrama. Would you like to drop a paragraph into the thread saying whether taxation should cover any or all of the cost of education and if so why?

[Lon]

Cherrryama said---"‘It's a calamity for the people of America that John McCain isn't the current President, with Sarah Palin as backup."

Surely you jest? We may somewhat agree on the health issue, but sure part on the above.

[spot]

Originally Posted by Lon

Cherrryama said---"‘It's a calamity for the people of America that John McCain isn't the current President, with Sarah Palin as backup."

Surely you jest? We may somewhat agree on the health issue, but sure part on the above.

No, cherryrama is a newbie and has no idea how to quote properly on a vBulletin board, that's all. He's just inventing his own quote-reponse style instead of helping keep the site tidy. It was me that said what you quoted, not cherryrama. If you read the paragraph in which I said it you'll see why I think it's true.

[Lon]

Originally Posted by spot

No, cherryrama is a newbie and has no idea how to quote properly on a vBulletin board, that's all. He's just inventing his own quote-reponse style instead of helping keep the site tidy. It was me that said what you quoted, not cherryrama. If you read the paragraph in which I said it you'll see why I think it's true.

Whoops!! Sorry bout that. McCain/Palin? We would probably have troops in Iceland.

[spot]

Originally Posted by Lon

Whoops!! Sorry bout that. McCain/Palin? We would probably have troops in Iceland.

Maybe so, but at least the bastards would crash and burn without any excuses instead of being let off the hook.