English History

[persephone]

Yep that's right, America is a baby compared to Europe as history goes if you discount native history.

Hey maybe that's why they are now invading other countries etc. Just like the rest of us did through history

[weeder]

Lon, That is fascinating. I truly am ashamed that I hsve such a poor education in history, You know there are so many subjects I wasnt interested way back then,
that I would love to know about now. My only excuse is that my teachers were so boring, and also at that age I was hungry to learn about the subjects I loved. Speech and Drama and dance. I am going to just read this thread and learn.. not even try to stick my toe in. Thanks again.. weeder

[gmc]

posted by lon

The two historys are distinctly different Weeder. My British ancestors were among the first to settle in what is now America. They lived in the 17th century in upstate New York. They never did break away from England and were in fact Loyalists during the Revolutionary War and fled to what is now Nova Scotia. They came back to New York and re-settled after the war ended. That is a part of American History.
English History would cover more ground and an even longer time period going back to Celts, Roman Legions, Norman Conquest, 100 Years War, all the Kings & Queens, Magna Carta etc., etc.

After 1776 they really are different up until then the two were connected, if you want to understand where your constitution comes from you need to look to european and english history to get the background. One of thee reasons you have a seperation of church and state is your founding fathers did not want to import the vicious religious hatreds of england.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society...llers_05.shtml

When the American Congress set out their political principles in the Declaration of Independence on July 4th 1776, the ideas were taken straight from the English Levellers a century and a quarter before:

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the governed.

The Americans had also drawn heavily on the writings of Tom Paine, who was a direct heir of the Leveller tradition, and whose Rights of Man also won him a place in the history of the French Revolution (he was elected a Deputy to the first French Constituent Assembly surmmoned to implement the principles of 'liberty, equality and fraternity'). The English reformers of the early 19th century also drew many of their ideas and language from the Levellers' mix of Christian teaching, religious and political dissent, social equality and democracy. It fired the imagination of generations of Congregationalists, trade union pioneers, early co-operators, Chartists, and socialists.

It's an age old debate, who rules and why should we let them?

I suggest you read the populist stuff like the bbs links and then just follow what interests you.

[Aura]

Did anyone see Songs of Praise on BBC 1 at 6pm Sunday 23rd, about the Holocaust? I thought it was well done, anyone else agree?

[persephone]

Have to say I never watch Songs of Praise

[Aura]

It was very sad. A group from a college went to visit Auschwitz and there was huge piles of shoes, hair, false limbs, toys, suitcases and cyclone b canisters. Each tin of gas represents thousands of people being killed. It had me in tears the way they showed everything.

[jennifer35]

I am interested in Richard 3, Henry 8 and admire Eleanor of Aquitaine although my knowledge of her is a bit foggy. Jenni

[Aura]

Check out sites like:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/histori...iii_king.shtml
http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/tudor.htm
http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~nhunt...h%20wives.html

Hope this helps.

[capt_buzzard]

Bill Sikes is good on English history. What about Bothwell?

[Bothwell]

Jennifer, Richard III is a very interesting character, much maligned not least by Shakespeare, contemporary writings show he was much admired by the people of the time and had to cope with loss of a young son and his wife within a year. On the other side he may have been responsible for infanticide.

Henry VIII, well enough said, what a guy.

Eleanor, she was pretty tough, the daughter of Geoffrey of Anjou she was actually a cousin of her husband Henry II, she bore him six children of which I think 4 were sons, that alone in the 12th century was remarkable but she was much more than just a wife and mother.

It always makes me laugh when I consider the outrage at Charles/Camilla/Diana etc when you read any history of our Kings and Queens it makes this modern lot look like angels.

Oh and I almost forgot, suggested reading "This Island Race" by Winston Churchill, you may want to try a library as this tome is expensive.