Was World War II Worth It?

[Scrat]

I forget which one-knowingly sending them back to their deaths,

I wonder why we sent them back.

[gmc]

Originally Posted by Scrat

I wonder why we sent them back.

I think it was part of the Yalta agreement when stalin was still Uncle Joe (don't have time to dig much at present) -nobody expected the invasion in 1944 to be as succesful for the allies as it was and the russians were expected to capture more than they did and the kind of regime that would be imposed by the russians on what would be the soviet bloc couldn't be conceived by most in the west. also this was wartime and total war at that there would have been little sympathy for those who fought with the germans amongst the victors. The hand over was 1947 I think by which point it was clearer what was going to happen. It's only from the perspective of fifty years later that it seems terrible.

posted by scrat

As for Putin it seems most Russians like him. His popularity is over 70%. I think that the Russians are like Danes Brits ect in many ways when it comes to nostalgia. They don't like "democracy" American style when it comes to leaders. They seem to want a king or someone close to a king, someone who can take charge. Before you start slinging the drivel about Putin being an autocratic dictator read about the Nordic "Allthing" and learn about Russian people and exactly what the Russian government has done in relation to what Britain has and South Africa has done in the last decade.

I wish you would stop making assumptions about what I am or am not going to write. If I write drivel by all means point out where the drivel is creeping in but at least extend the courtesy of waiting to see how much drivel is coming.

As to Britain and South Africa not to mention all the other bits we had at one time what is it you think I am unaware of? No offence but Americans always seem to assume we don't know about the British Empire and feel compelled to mention it at every opportunity. When you point out that conquering primitive tribes an Africa with cannon and machine guns is no different from doing so in the american west the comparison seems to cause offence.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/WWmanifest.htm

As it happens I am quite familiar with the Nordic Althing and would contend it had a powerful effect on the way society and democracy developed in the UK-or at least the basic egalitarian attitude behind it. Although I would be hard pushed to put a logical case. You see the phenomenon in both the magna carta and the putney debates. It's easy to forget that universal suffrage and democracy is less than a hundred years old we take it so much for granted. I think you forget or are unaware what a mongrel nation Britain actually is and how many influences and peoples make up our history. But that's why we are communicating in a language deriving from a germanic dialect from the north of england with words pinched from every language it has ever come in to contact with.

posted by scrat

Once again, nobody really knows. I have only a little vague material FROM THE RUSSIAN point of view. The rest is mainly "toe the line" drivel from the west.

I suggest you cross reference your sources and look at original material as much as possible. Certainly in the UK many documents are now being released that throw light on much of what went on, similarly there now seems to be a lot of material coming our of Russia. American sources i don't know about.

Toe what line? Do you suspect you have been brainwashed in some way?

posted by deckard

I have read the `heated` debate that has ensued in this thread, but I seem to be missing the point. The original question ` Was World War 2 worth it? has only one answer. NO. Is any war worth it, worth what I ask? All the millions of people being killed, the destruction of towns and cities it is pure madness. The 2nd World War should have been the end of wars. It may have went on for a lot longer and many of us wouldn't have even been born as a result but in a sense we still have a World War it just takes place in many diffrent countries all at the same time. The End of all Wars is something I thought our world would be free of by now. It's a bloody shame that it isn't and most probally it never will be.

Perhaps Wars are a business lead thing as it keeps the nations that build the weapons in the first place very wealthy.

Talk about going off topic! Actually ww1 was supposed to be the end of all wars instead the technology of killing just gets better and better. Mankind is a territorial animal-just try parking in your next door neighbours drive and see how they react, you either fall out or settle things peaceably.

On one level wars are always about controlling resources. But its never that simple. If we have another world war the consequences this time will be so much greater it is hard to imagine. Maybe ww2 was worth it if it brought home the realityof what we are all capable off. In the "west" there has been the longest period of peace in history, maybe the shock is now wearing off and we are now back to the idea of having a "good" war for a "noble" cause. Being cynical would the US and UK have invaded Iraq if it was capable of defending itself?

No war is worth it but how about necessary?

Well WWII meets the conditions of a "just war" as set out by Aquinas in Summa Theologica (Qu. 40 and while I'm not a religious person the three conditions he sets out make sense to me and would seem to justify WWII.

[randall]

GMC has cheered randall's heart,
A lot has still to be said and even more learned. Throuhgout my lifetime of voyages and journeys starting March 1953 - before that I had never been out of the north of Scotland.
I carried, however, a great deal of knowledge from books and could draw most countires maps from memory and their whereabouts on the GLOBE.
It was in 1953 that I was shocked by the ignorance of people boasting university degrees in the USA - we were always brought up to believe that those things were beyond us. Head to big for your shoulders. Getting ahead of your position in life, AND all that jazz our parents forced down us.
They, the folk I met in the USA, with all their first class education, all seemed to have one overwhelming obsession - "REDS UNDER THE BEDS."
TRY BEING SERVED IN ANY SHOP IN THE STATES WHEN THE McCARTHY TRIALS WERE ON WHEN CUSTOMERS AND STAFF ALIKE WERE HUDDLED AROUND SMALL BAKELITE WIRELESS SETS ON THE SHOP COUNTERS!.
Churchill fell out violently wioth the USA and especially Eisenhower by trying - and failed - to convince tham that the USSR was not what they thought it was.
Never mind liberating western Europe, was more or less his words, get as far east and as fast as you can or these people will never see daylight in their lives again.
But of course there are always secret agendas - USA wanted rid of the British Empire at all costs. ie Refusing to allow the Royal Navy to enter Hong Kong AFTER HOSTILITIES HAD ENDED to feed and give medical attention to both the Japanese and their erstwhile prisoners - all of whom were starving and most were very sick.
The USA wanted Chang Kai Shek (he put it about that he was a Christian and fighting the that Anti-Christ Comunists) to "LIBERATEliberate Hong Kong although they could hardrly protect themselves against the communits forces of Mao.
His wife said that Britain had stuck a dager in China's back when Britain recognised Mao as the true leader and opened an embassy in Peking. (Peping/Beijing - they've all come and gone in my lifetime.)
IF THAT HAD HAPPENED - where would the US forces have taken their R & R from Vietnam during that very long conflict?
US Generals were more media minded than those from other countries - take General Mark Clark for an example.
"I thought I had put a raging bull ashore but now I find it is only a beached whale." WSC about Anzio.)
What was read in the small township newpapers back home counted more than the thousands of American's boys lifves they threw away.
Which American today can quote Americas Beloved War Correspondence?
ERNIE PILE - sadly killed in the last days of the war on Okinawa. There is sadly far too few of his ilk.
Some American were convinced that the broadcasts from the rooftops in London during the blitz were set up - much like Orson Welles "War of the Worlds."
Every side made mistakes in the hundreds of thousands and all have paid dearly for them over and over again.
What I just cannot understand that the mightiest nation on earth is so morally bankrupt as to fall back on Fundamentalist Christianity as their one true strength and be so blind as apparently learn nothing whatsoever from its own recent history - in our newspapers today there are rumours of plans to use tactical nuclear weapons against Iran next - sad, sad, sad?
Where have all the young men gone?
God bless.
randall