A Good Read For You Brits

[Lon]

I just finished reading "1776" by David Mcullough. It's a wonder that we ever won our independence from the Crown, given the little or no training of the Ameican rebels, no real navy and the large number of Loyalists in America (of which a number of my ancestors belonged).
It's was interesting to read that the only time George Washington was out of America was a trip he made to Barbados with his brother when in his twenties.

[randall]

randall here,
Don't forget the help you got from John Paul Jones - he even had the guts to raid his own town in Scotland.
Caused the first surrender of an English warship in battle for something like 200 years.
He wasn't even mentioned in our school history books.
God bless all.
randall.

[alobar51]

Originally Posted by Lon

I just finished reading "1776" by David Mcullough. It's a wonder that we ever won our independence from the Crown, given the little or no training of the Ameican rebels, no real navy and the large number of Loyalists in America (of which a number of my ancestors belonged).
It's was interesting to read that the only time George Washington was out of America was a trip he made to Barbados with his brother when in his twenties.

"If you fight a conventional war, if you don't win, you lose. If you fight a guerrila war, if you don't lose, you win."
Henry Kissinger

[JAB]

I think the English might have been a tad overconfident too. It surely wasn't the last time some country didn't take their opponent seriously...

[gmc]

Don't forget all the help the Spanish and French gave you.

What would you have done had you been around at the time? It's hard to put yourself in the mindset of those alive at the time and looking back from a 21st century perspective the issues are often a lot grayer than they may have been at the time. Badly phrased question, hopefully you get my drift.

[Bothwell]

Don't forget all the help the Spanish and French gave you

.
Beat me to it GMC especially those perfidious French.

Also dont forget the heinous tactic of the Americans NOT wearing bright Red coats into battle and marching slowly in squares towards the rebel troops!!!.

Anyway we all know it was won by Mel Gibson just like he freed the Scots from the tyranny of Edward lonshanks.

Actually the book was fantastic and I was shocked to find out how many loyalists there actually were.

[Lon]

Originally Posted by gmc

Don't forget all the help the Spanish and French gave you.

What would you have done had you been around at the time? It's hard to put yourself in the mindset of those alive at the time and looking back from a 21st century perspective the issues are often a lot grayer than they may have been at the time. Badly phrased question, hopefully you get my drift.

Knowing me, I probably would have sided with the Rebels. French and Spanish help did not come untill later. Hesssian support to the English came pretty early on, although I don't know why they needed the Hessians, they had overwhelming power that for some reason or other did not utilize to full advantage. I think they fully expected the Rebels to capitulate without a fight when faced with the sheer magnitude of English forces. The authors description of the 140 British ships on the Hudson River outside New York made interesting reading. It was the largest concentration of ships to have ever been seen in America at that time. The bulk of the New York citizenry were Loyalists.

[gmc]

posted by Lon

Hesssian support to the English came pretty early on, although I don't know why they needed the Hessians, they had overwhelming power that for some reason or other did not utilize to full advantage.

King george was also elector of Hanover which is why you had german troops involved as well. Nation states were still in development, germany as a nation did not exist. By 1780 the French, Spanish and Dutch had all piled in as well and it was a full blown world war

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/state/e...coats_01.shtml

Howe, probably hoping to reach a compromise settlement with Washington, showed little killer instinct in his New York campaign. But in this sort of war the British were in any case eventually likely to lose, unless they could strike the patriots such a telling blow as to win the war at a stroke, and it is hard to see how this could have been achieved.

Conversely, the patriots had always been likely to win, provided they struggled on and avoided outright defeat. It is unlikely that George Washington would much like being compared with General Vo Nguyen Giap, who commanded the North Vietnamese army in the Vietnam war. But both shared the same recognition that a militarily-superior opponent with worldwide preoccupations can be beaten by an opponent who avoids outright defeat and remains in the field. It is an old truth, and 21st-century strategists, whatever their political differences, should be well aware of it.

[randall]

randall scouting around,
Think of the poor highlanders killed at the Battle Of New Orleans two weeks after the war had offivially been ended with Cornwallis surrendering - unecessarily - at Yorktown.
I do not use the term Brits as is it just one of those abbreviations that makes my spine squirm.
The Highland regiments were formed UNDER the rule that they would never have to fight overseas - now we see where all these professional government liars come from - or were they always like since Lysander's time? Or even before!
Twice in the past the so-called British Navy has been desperately understrength and lost control of the seven seas. And each time the army lost a war.
Read John Prebble's "Highland Regiments."
Modern politicians do not learn from the past.
The British armed forces always train to fight the last war.
Cameron of Lochiel and his friends begged Prince Charlie not to fight at Cullodden but, for some "strange" reason he was enamoured with General O'Sullivan's knowledge of warfare (Or lack of it) and each time he took that general's advice he lost. He might have been a spy of "Bloody Billie's" (read Prince of Wales)
The Highland Chieftains knew instintively that a hit and run policy was the best in the - then - almost impenetrable moutains and glens of the highlands.
In Churchill's "History of the English Speaking People." - a book well worth reading - he points out only twice in history have an army of pikemen defeated completely an orthodox army composed of knights,(cavalry) archers, pikemen and footsoldiers.
One was in Switzerland and the other was at Bannockburn = but, as a fairly balanced Scot, I think? - I wonder what like Bannockburn would have been had Edward the First still commanded the English Army with its Welsh archers????
Much different ending - methinks?
I lay down the American victory at the feet of the English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh and other European settlers (or their descendents) who had mastered the Kentucky rifle and the art of camoflage. And making every shot count!
Not to mention the guidelines laid down by "Rodger's Rangers" - HE WAS BRITISH - and is still used as an instruction book to this day in many military academies
He gave the poor French in Canada a terrible headache by NOT sticking to the rules.
By the way, I accidentally discovered that Captain Ferguson who developed one of the first breech loaded rifles, formed his own regiment and gave them their own uniforms owned a very large part of Buchan called the "Pitfour Estate" and, in "Pitfour House" (now a hotel/guest house, with hunting, shooting fishing, riding etc.) This regiment fought with great renown in the American War of Independance and never lost - if my sources are correct.
There is one of these long Ferguson Rifles over the fireplace in the diningroom - those working there did not know the significance of it when I spoke to them about it.
All I got was a bunch of shrugged shoulders - one or two were interested.
Then three weeks ago I discovered through a man making a family tree, he came to our house because he had uncovered the fact that both my wife and I were his third cousins (!) and had got back to the 1700's, that Captain Ferguson built a fishing village, and a harbour with a pier, and named it Buchanhaven and invited interested families to come and live there. That would have also been in the 1700's.
And that is where my father was born and - luckily - the house he was born in is now a listed building by the government which means it will be preserved as a historical item.
In it, my Aunt who died at 97, told me she had lived first with an earth floor, then a stone slab floor and finally. a wooden floor.
It may interest some of you to know that the first self contained rifle cartridge was developed by a Minister of a Church at Belhelvie a few miles north of Aberdeen.
He was fed up, when waterfowling, amongst sand dunes and bints of Balmedie, with his powder getting wet.
It took him a long time and OF COURSE the BRITISH ARMY was NOT INTERESTED IN IT AT ALL.
Finally, some powerful person managed to get him safely ensconed in the Tower of London where he could continue with his experiments and the Army gave him a sergeant or something like that to assist him and, if possible, sabotage his efforts.
I often wonder, when I hear about guns firing 700 rounds per minute, etc and all the people that have been killed by them - what would that poor country minister think of his invention now.
God Bless All.
randall.

SMILE AND THE WHOLE WORLD SMILES WITH YOU

Fascinating Randall , a pleasure as always.