Make these ads go away.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 52

Thread: Egypt.........it's a worry

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    Happy
     
    Bruv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Kent..... South East England
    Posts
    11,815
    Local Date
    11-21-2017
    Local Time
    07:56 AM
    Points
    61,258
    Gifts Beer Beer FacePalm Ban Hammer Beer Beer Beer Beer

    Re: Egypt.........it's a worry

    It has all gone horribly wrong according to the News.
    So many countries have problems moving from dictatorial regimes to democracy, makes you wonder what the best way to govern 85 million people really is.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

  2. #12
    Closed
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    Crazy
     

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,217
    Local Date
    11-21-2017
    Local Time
    08:56 AM
    Points
    6,493

    Re: Egypt.........it's a worry

    Perhaps it's a question of what the majority of the electorate want. As in having a fairly-run election without stuffing ballot boxes, with international observers, the whole works.

    They did that a couple of years ago and the majority of the electorate wanted a parliament run by the Muslim Brotherhood, with a President from the Muslim Brotherhood. I take it we all agree that's a fact, we do remember the events? That choice happens not to conform to the wishes of the current US administration and so we have, instead, a military dictatorship taking power in a coup after the streets were flooded with protesters.

    Now we have protesters on the streets supporting the Muslim Brotherhood and, not surprisingly, they're being cowed by killing them where they stand. At least that shows the new military dictatorship isn't on their side.

    Why, precisely, are we here on ForumGarden disowning the democratic process?

  3. #13
    Supporting Member
    is I am counting the cost of Christmas
     
    I am:
    Happy
     
    Snowfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Darn Sarf. Hingland
    Posts
    4,798
    Local Date
    11-21-2017
    Local Time
    08:56 AM
    Points
    197,752
    Gifts Mop Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer

    Re: Egypt.........it's a worry

    Yes but democracy is more than just a numbers game. Its what you do when you get there. Morsi certainly played the game and was first past the post but what he did subsequently was to change the rules and move the goalposts. He obviously pissed of a lot of people to wake them up into protest the way they did. Thatcher woke us up. Just because she was elected didnt stop us as a people from going onto the streets

    Morsi's Power Grab: 'There Was a Disease but This Is Not the Remedy' - David Rohde - The Atlantic
    "He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
    Winston Churchill

  4. #14
    Closed
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    Crazy
     

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,217
    Local Date
    11-21-2017
    Local Time
    08:56 AM
    Points
    6,493

    Re: Egypt.........it's a worry

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfire View Post
    Yes but democracy is more than just a numbers game. Its what you do when you get there. Morsi certainly played the game and was first past the post but what he did subsequently was to change the rules and move the goalposts. He obviously pissed of a lot of people to wake them up into protest the way they did. Thatcher woke us up. Just because she was elected didnt stop us as a people from going onto the streets
    I note that the British Armed Forces didn't eject her party from power or arrest her Cabinet, regardless of how much they sided with the protestors. They, unlike these corrupt Egyptian officers, allowed democratic processes to eventually remove her party from office.

    Things weren't always like this in England - the previous time we had a ruler like Thatcher, the army lopped his wretched head off in Whitehall while a cheering crowd showed their gratitude. We have progressed from those times. For some reason the Egyptian Armed Forces have failed to keep pace with post-medieval practices.

  5. #15
    Supporting Member
    is I am counting the cost of Christmas
     
    I am:
    Happy
     
    Snowfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Darn Sarf. Hingland
    Posts
    4,798
    Local Date
    11-21-2017
    Local Time
    08:56 AM
    Points
    197,752
    Gifts Mop Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer

    Re: Egypt.........it's a worry

    I think what I'm trying to say is that I may have possibly have voted for Morsi, given what had gone before but I think I would have also been on the streets the past week, given what followed

    As for the Armed forces, who's side are they meant to be on. The Government or the people ?
    "He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
    Winston Churchill

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    Hungry
     
    Scrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,401
    Local Date
    11-21-2017
    Local Time
    12:56 AM
    Points
    6,144

    Re: Egypt.........it's a worry

    Well one thing is for sure, the usual suspects are present. The Egyptian military is firmly in the grip of the US, we're the ones who pay their generals and supplement their military infrastructure, Saudi Arabia simply sees The Muslim Brotherhood as a rival for influence and power in the region. The MB is a popular movement that has been challenging the status quo in the Muslim world for decades but in reality they're no different from what exists now when it comes to extremes. Some info on US aid to Egypt.

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33003.pdf

    I don't believe there is anything going on there that is meant to empower the Egyptian people, it's simply a power struggle between the ruling classes of the region.

    As for the Armed forces, who's side are they meant to be on. The Government or the people ?
    They're meant to be on the side of the state, not the people or the politicians. The state being the country. That's why the SAA has done some of the things it has in the past, they are in Syria to maintain the peace and stability of Syria. Of course this is subject to many factors. Look at Turkey, for decades the military was the backers of Ataturk's policies in Turkey. If any group with extremist tendencies got into power they would intervene and throw them out. As of these last few years the Muslims have become more powerful and as they did they arrested many military commanders and jailed them. The Turkish military now has people in the high command that are obedient not to the Turkish state, but to the politicians in power. Many countries do this.

  7. #17
    Supporting Member
    is I am counting the cost of Christmas
     
    I am:
    Happy
     
    Snowfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Darn Sarf. Hingland
    Posts
    4,798
    Local Date
    11-21-2017
    Local Time
    08:56 AM
    Points
    197,752
    Gifts Mop Beer Beer Beer Beer Beer

    Re: Egypt.........it's a worry

    They're meant to be on the side of the state, not the people or the politicians. The state being the country.
    Of which the people and government are part
    "He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
    Winston Churchill

  8. #18
    Senior Member
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    Happy
     
    Bruv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Kent..... South East England
    Posts
    11,815
    Local Date
    11-21-2017
    Local Time
    07:56 AM
    Points
    61,258
    Gifts Beer Beer FacePalm Ban Hammer Beer Beer Beer Beer

    Re: Egypt.........it's a worry

    Quote Originally Posted by Týr View Post
    I note that the British Armed Forces didn't eject her party from power or arrest her Cabinet
    They did more than that to Herr Hitler.........was he not a popularly elected leader ?
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

  9. #19
    Closed
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    Crazy
     

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,217
    Local Date
    11-21-2017
    Local Time
    08:56 AM
    Points
    6,493

    Re: Egypt.........it's a worry

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Týr
    I note that the British Armed Forces didn't eject her party from power or arrest her Cabinet
    They did more than that to Herr Hitler.........was he not a popularly elected leader ?
    We were, I thought, discussing coups by natives rather than the away games of our national squad.

  10. #20
    Senior Member
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    Hungry
     
    Scrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,401
    Local Date
    11-21-2017
    Local Time
    12:56 AM
    Points
    6,144

    Re: Egypt.........it's a worry

    Register to remove this ad.
    Of which the people and government are part

    In a book I read some time ago there are various opinions on the duty of a military within the borders of its respective country. A Soviet soldier was expected to lay down his life for the people of Russia and for the Motherland. It says nothing about dying for a politician or a political cause or the "state" in a political sense. The oath of a US soldier says for him to defend the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. Turkey has an army which is (or more recently was) sworn to uphold the principles of Kemalism. An ideology.

    A state can be the people, the physical place, the political order or an ideology as in the case of Turkey.

    I suspect the Egyptian army is supporting a status quo, one that favors the generals in charge. Not the people.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. EGYPT: What's your take?
    By Ahso! in forum International Politics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-11-2011, 05:14 PM
  2. This is how Egypt went down...
    By Irmin in forum International Politics
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 06-07-2009, 10:25 PM
  3. I don't want to worry you....... But......
    By Oscar Namechange in forum General Chit Chat
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 01-16-2009, 06:55 AM
  4. Worry of the day
    By Indian Princess in forum General Chit Chat
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-13-2007, 09:21 AM
  5. Egypt
    By neffy in forum Travel & Vacation
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 07-02-2007, 11:42 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.5.2