Homosexuality

[buttercup]

Personally i do not know any muslims but i have entered into other discussions on this board where i have no personal knowledge of the subject so dont really see a difference why i have to personally know someone for this discussion

[spot]

I'm not sure an example from personal experience was quite what I was after either.

I'll take a flier and guess. I'd distinguish, firstly, between the culture of any given Islamic society and Islam itself. Your earlier posts suggest that "an unmarried man having sex with boys is 'just doing what men do'" is disapproved of by any Islamic interpretation and subject to prosecution under local law.

I'm sure there have been times when pederasty has been culturally tolerated within some historical Islamic societies just as it has been in some historical Western ones. I doubt very much whether it is culturally tolerated in any today.

If you can provide a modern-day instance, from (for example) a newspaper article, we could see whether I'm on the right track.

[buttercup]

Your far better at finding links than me and fine you know it.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by buttercup

Your far better at finding links than me and fine you know it.

Dont let him bully you into facts and common sense butter baby.

[spot]

Originally Posted by buttercup

In light of all the recent discussions on Islamic culture i would like to raise the question of homosexuality. Is having sex with boys seen as the social norm?
I have heard that an unmarried man having sex with boys is 'just doing what men do'. Males serve as substitutes for unavailable women.
Anyone care to discuss?

Here's what seems a well-conducted research poll into British Muslim attitudes, published last month

http://reddit.independent.co.uk/tool...er?id=t3_8itck

Not a single British Muslim said homosexuality was morally acceptable, compared to 58 per cent of the general public who believed it was. In other European countries with large Muslim populations such as France and Germany, the difference was far less pronounced: more than a third of French Muslims said they did not have a problem with homosexuality.

I think the wording there covers pederasty too, don't you?

[buttercup]

Thank you Spot, i'm not sure the wording covers pederasty but it certainly covers what muslim people who are prepared to answer surveys think.
Anyone else?

[spot]

I what way does homosexuality not include pederasty? Perhaps I'm misusing the terms. Your opening post did say "i would like to raise the question of homosexuality".

[buttercup]

I did not say homosexuality does not include pederasty (pederasty is with young boys right?) I see nowhere on that link that talks of young boys. From what i have read it appears muslims do not see pedastry as homosexuality, i do and also as pedophilia.

Anyway another interesting link.
Pederasty has historically had both a secular and religious literary presence in the Islamic world and continues today as a frowned upon, unspoken, yet tolerated form of male sexual expression in many countries and cultures under the crescent of Islam. If one is skeptical of this theory, he would be hard-pressed to explain why the practice continues predominantly in the far-flung rural areas of the peripheral countries of the Islamic world, such as Morocco (Schmitt and Sofer 25) and the Peshawar valley of Pakistan, having most recently witnessed an actual marriage between two males aged 42 and 16 in a remote village that attracted the outrage of the local community but nonetheless proceeded as planned (Asia Times).

While an occurrence such as the aforementioned marriage is bound to attract criticism from people of all religious stripes, including Muslims themselves, it cannot be denied that avenues exist for the expression of this sort of sexual expression in many Islamic societies, regardless of whether it is sanctioned by religious authorities. In terms of its legal consequences, pederasty is difficult to prosecute because of the necessity of four reliable, Muslim, male eyewitnesses to confirm the act, and the fact that neither male youths nor their families are often inclined to take up such matters with the authorities.

Source - iranian.com: Maziar Shirazi, Islamic discourses on ‘homosexuality’

[spot]

Originally Posted by buttercup

I did not say homosexuality does not include pederasty (pederasty is with young boys right?) I see nowhere on that link that talks of young boys. From what i have read it appears muslims do not see pedastry as homosexuality, i do and also as pedophilia.

If the link shows Muslims condemning homosexuality, and homosexuality includes pederasty, it follows that those Muslims are condemning pederasty at the same time.

I agree with your linked article there that pederasty is hard to bring to court because of an inherent sense of shame on the part of the youth concerned. Exactly the same reason applied in bringing charges against US servicemen for forcing homosexual acts on juvenile boys detained in Iraq. And yes, I can give links if asked.

[buttercup]

Thank you Spot but i wont need the links. I should have titled the thread 'pederasty' on reflection.
Anyway from what i see muslims do not seem to think pederasty is homosexuality or pedophilia and i'd like to know why. Is that better?