Homosexuality

[spot]

Originally Posted by buttercup

Thank you Spot but i wont need the links. I should have titled the thread 'pederasty' on reflection.
Anyway from what i see muslims do not seem to think pederasty is homosexuality or pedophilia and i'd like to know why. Is that better?

I think you're very mistaken, every society on earth has a small proportion of men who behave that way, I see no reason to find the proportion greater in any contemporary Islamic society or that the rest of them find it any less distasteful, as "an actual marriage between two males aged 42 and 16 in a remote village that attracted the outrage of the local community" in your text indicates.

[buttercup]

So your saying pederasty is no more common in muslim society than any other?

[spot]

Originally Posted by buttercup

So your saying pederasty is no more common in muslim society than any other?

I see no reason whatever to think anything else if you're comparing societies across the globe today, and for any historical moment in a given society from the Islamic past I'm quite sure I could find you one even more permissive in the West. You've shown yourself that local societies are outraged in Islamic-based cultures when these things are uncovered, just as they are in the West today. There's more than enough evidence that engaging juvenile males in sexual activity in countries with an Islamic legal system is prosecuted through the courts where it becomes known to the authorities.

What puzzles me most is that you seem so fascinated by the possibility that I'm mistaken. It seems inflammatory, inaccurate and biased.

Consider where this generation's sex tourists have headed if they wanted under-age sex with boys. Did they head to Dubai? Tehran? Indonesia? Not if they had any sense of self-preservation they didn't. They went to Brazil which is predominantly Christian, India which is predominantly Hindu, Bangkok which is predominantly Buddhist or Basingstoke which is predominantly a hotbed of wife-swappers, while those intending a lifelong pursuit of their hobby joined the Church of England and took charge of the local choir. If it comes to that, I can't remember a single leader of my scout troop who wasn't up for it whenever they ran a camp though I hope things have tightened up since.

If you're looking for a culture of acceptability, we grew up in it - the only adult response in the UK for generations was "don't tell tales" and a refusal to believe children.

[flopstock]

Originally Posted by buttercup

In light of all the recent discussions on Islamic culture i would like to raise the question of homosexuality. Is having sex with boys seen as the social norm?
I have heard that an unmarried man having sex with boys is 'just doing what men do'. Males serve as substitutes for unavailable women.
Anyone care to discuss?

I honestly haven't heard that myself and I belong to groups that have some fairly open sexual discussions upon occasion.

Are we talking homosexuality or pedophilia, though? Two separate animals IMO...

I think this is one of those nature versus nurture things. If you believe it is nature, then being Islamic would have no affect, would it? However, folks that believe it is nurture could see it as a cultural norm.

But if that is the case, I don't see how it is the common practice that it is globally... homosexuality, not pedophilia which I think you are describing.

Do you just hear about men or do unmarried boys have sex with unmarried boys also?

[spot]

Originally Posted by flopstock

I honestly haven't heard that myself and I belong to groups that have some fairly open sexual discussions upon occasion.

Are we talking homosexuality or pedophilia, though? Two separate animals IMO...

I think this is one of those nature versus nurture things. If you believe it is nature, then being Islamic would have no affect, would it? However, folks that believe it is nurture could see it as a cultural norm.

But if that is the case, I don't see how it is the common practice that it is globally... homosexuality, not pedophilia which I think you are describing.

Do you just hear about men or do unmarried boys have sex with unmarried boys also?

It depends on what you think homosexuality is. Is it a behaviour or is it a state of mind? If it's a state of mind then, so long as it's not practised as well, it's neither illegal nor frowned on by any of the monotheistic religions. What they condemn people for is expressing it in the form of actions. Even if it's a state of mind and it's nature then being in an Islamic culture might well tend to make expressing it as an action rather less likely, don't you think?

The thread's not concerned with pedophilia, it's about "having sex with boys" and we're using pederasty as the appropriate term. I'm not getting at anyone, I'm just trying to stick to what was raised because it's an entirely different issue. Sex with under-age girls isn't at issue, it's "[juvenile] males serving as substitutes for unavailable women".

[flopstock]

Originally Posted by spot

It depends on what you think homosexuality is. Is it a behaviour or is it a state of mind? If it's a state of mind then, so long as it's not practised as well, it's neither illegal nor frowned on by any of the monotheistic religions. What they condemn people for is expressing it in the form of actions. Even if it's a state of mind and it's nature then being in an Islamic culture might well tend to make expressing it as an action rather less likely, don't you think?

The thread's not concerned with pedophilia, it's about "having sex with boys" and we're using pederasty as the appropriate term. I'm not getting at anyone, I'm just trying to stick to what was raised because it's an entirely different issue. Sex with under-age girls isn't at issue, it's "[juvenile] males serving as substitutes for unavailable women".

You can call it whatever rocks your boat spot. You can also say it isn't concerned with pedophilia. And I can tell you you are full of crap.

I think the real topic for discussion should be the thread title and the fact that folks still seem to see homosexuals as pedophiles, by default.
But you make it about whatever you want and enjoy yourself.

[spot]

I suggest you check a dictionary.

pederast - Wolfram|Alpha

pederast | a man who has sex (usually sodomy) with a boy as the passive partner

pedophile - Wolfram|Alpha

pedophile | an adult who is sexually attracted to children

"I think the real topic for discussion should be the thread title" might perhaps be extended to the content of the opening post. That sets the context in rather more detail: "Is having sex with boys seen as the social norm?".

[buttercup]

Floppy - Spot's pedantric, which is ok with me, i like that he challenges me beyond the boundaries of which i would normally answer, my spelling mistakes let me down to the one's further educated than me, my choice of words challenge me beyond my education when replying to him or others more educated than myself but never for a second have i ever felt thick, i see it more as furthering myself to answer him or others more and thats good, how can that be a bad thing? It's not, education is the key.
I value pretty much everything you both say, diversity is afterall (to someone like me) what makes the world what it is

[Abram Is Muslim]

The Answer over that thread is just on that thread,

Homosexuality and the religions

[flopstock]

Originally Posted by spot

I suggest you check a dictionary.

pederast - Wolfram|Alpha

pederast | a man who has sex (usually sodomy) with a boy as the passive partner

pedophile - Wolfram|Alpha

pedophile | an adult who is sexually attracted to children

"I think the real topic for discussion should be the thread title" might perhaps be extended to the content of the opening post. That sets the context in rather more detail: "Is having sex with boys seen as the social norm?".

And I suggest you eat a dictionary.
I know what the definitions are. I also know that any man who isn't a pedophile in his soul would vomit at the notion of ramming his genitalia into the rectum of a 'boy' - passive, screaming,crying or begging for it.