Will Obama Really Fix Education?

I agree with Accountable, something does have to give.

I think we have lost the American Pioneer Spirit! We used to tackle problems with real solutions and not repeat the same things over and over again.

If the no child left behind act isn't working, why revamp it? Or fund it better? FIX IT with a new solution. The problem is that no body has a new solution because we were all educated by the same system that works for some individually but not on a mass basis.

The key to any good educational system is parent involvement. Parents need to sit on the school boards of the individual schools their children attend.

The next thing is that from 5 years old on they need to be educated in the basics, Math, English, Language Studies, History, Social Studies, and Literature. Not a bunch of electives until they get in the high school level.

The next thing we need to do is make the local cities responsible for building and maintaining schools, the 'educational' money should only go to the students, and the state should pay teacher salaries, so there is a complete separate accounting for all three major budget items in a school system. When we say taxes were sent to education we know the money went directly to the kid’s education, not an over head system of waste.

I'll give you an small example of how it works.

I know a small school, I attended it for three years, and it’s been in existence for 47 years now. It operates pretty much like I pointed out above. It's a private school that asks no tuition per student, it is supported by the generosity of the congregation and operates in financial accountability as I stated. It graduates about 20 kids a year, 99% of which attend college even if it’s just a local community college with the majority attending religious colleges such as Pensacola Christian, Bob Jones University, West Coast Baptist College. The kids are grouped in three groups, Kindergarten, Elementary grades 1-6, and high school grades 7-12. The class years I attended we had about 90 kids each year.

The kids get a classic and religious education free from distractions. They go to school from 8am to 3pm Monday-Friday, on Saturday morning the young men meet for bible and prayer time and that’s voluntary and I'd say about 90% of the young men meet regularly on Saturday. They have sports teams; do physical education, music, art. In addition to that the church members hold additional classes which are for any kid who is interested in their field of interest. My dad taught auto mechanics, welding, forging, wood carving, and took the kids on nature hikes for field trips, he even took those who were interested on a wilderness survival trek. Other parents taught different classes, one group of kids was interested in criminology so a church member who used to work for the FBI taught an intro to criminology to the kids to see if they would like a career in law enforcement.

The real important part.

The average cost per student per month is about $90. for all that. Thats less than a $1000 per year to educate a student in a superior education. And we have the test data to prove it. The state mandatory test system results on the kids produce consistently higher than grade level scores, on average they are 3-4 grade levels advanced.

This school model relies heavily on parent participation and interest, at this school it is the head of household that advances a child to the next grade, actually signing his certificate of advancement and eventually the child’s high school diploma.

There is zero drug use in this school, no crime, no gangs, no violence, just kids being kids and parents caring for them and making sure they get a good education in the best way they can afford.

[southern yankee]

Originally Posted by Accountable

That's not necessarily from day care. A younger sibling in a large family usually develops language and social skills faster than their older siblings, from my limited experience. For first or only children, more social situations, such as church or regular play dates, should do the trick just as well.

yes from a loving well rounded home. But every child is not blessed with that.Had MANY students like That

[Accountable]

Originally Posted by southern yankee

yes from a loving well rounded home. But every child is not blessed with that.Had MANY students like That

Then THAT's what needs to be addressed: How many homes are not loving & well rounded and what if anything should be done about it. Dig for the roots of the problem so we don't waste all of our time & energy treating symptoms.

For instance, it seems we've all bypassed the question "How important is it for young children to be maximally advanced in language and social skills before entering elementary school?"

Here's another one: Where is the proof that the federal gov't is the best place to make decisions regarding the education of our children?

[oscar]

Originally Posted by Hoss

It is not the government’s responsibility to educate a child; it is the parent’s responsibility. The more programs that the government offers to do this the more parents will give up their responsibility in education their own children.

Sorry Hoss, i have to totally dis-agree with you here.
It benifits a child greatly if they are lucky enough to have parents that do educate their children pre-school. The truth is that in this country, and i am in no doubt it applys elsewhere, half of our country can not even read or write. We seem to have a 'middle generation' that is totally lacking in any shape or form to educate their children for them. It's one of the reasons why our government wants all children in nursery by the age of two. If half of the kids in this country are left to the education of the parents who have none themselves, we just breed the next generation of dumb idiots.
It is down to the government to ensure that every child from every walk of life has the benifit of the best education possible simply because the parents can not be relied on.

[Accountable]

Originally Posted by oscar

Sorry Hoss, i have to totally dis-agree with you here.
It benifits a child greatly if they are lucky enough to have parents that do educate their children pre-school. The truth is that in this country, and i am in no doubt it applys elsewhere, half of our country can not even read or write. We seem to have a 'middle generation' that is totally lacking in any shape or form to educate their children for them. It's one of the reasons why our government wants all children in nursery by the age of two. If half of the kids in this country are left to the education of the parents who have none themselves, we just breed the next generation of dumb idiots.
It is down to the government to ensure that every child from every walk of life has the benifit of the best education possible simply because the parents can not be relied on.

How long has your government taken on responsibiity of educating the children of these unreliable illiterate parents? I'd wager that it's been more than a generation, as it has been here. That means that the government's only done a half-arse job. Shouldn't we at least consider that?

Originally Posted by oscar

Sorry Hoss, i have to totally dis-agree with you here.
It benifits a child greatly if they are lucky enough to have parents that do educate their children pre-school. The truth is that in this country, and i am in no doubt it applys elsewhere, half of our country can not even read or write. We seem to have a 'middle generation' that is totally lacking in any shape or form to educate their children for them. It's one of the reasons why our government wants all children in nursery by the age of two. If half of the kids in this country are left to the education of the parents who have none themselves, we just breed the next generation of dumb idiots.
It is down to the government to ensure that every child from every walk of life has the benifit of the best education possible simply because the parents can not be relied on.

That is exactly what I'm talking about. The more the government does the more it reinforces that it isn't the parent’s responsibility. I'll bet you that if you go back it isn't that people didn't want to educate their children it was that they couldn't do it themselves, they needed help, but they didn't need it to be totally taken over by the government. Now the parents can guilt free wash their hands of the responsibility of educating their children. Your government is enabling parents to be lazy.

If half of the population is illiterate then you’re going to prolong that status by taking the responsibility for it. How many years has your government been doing this? Is the illiteracy problem worsened or is it better?

I agree we need public schools, but I disagree that the government should run them other than fund them and set accountability for the funds. The school system should be set and run as locally as possible.

I'd like to see a group of educators, statesmen and parents get together in each state and write a parent bill of rights and a state constitution on education, then leave it to the individual school districts to follow the education constitution. Each school should get the same amount of money, and as I said before that money goes to the student educational program, not the building fund, or play ground fund or a raise for the administrators of the school or school district. The city cares for the school building and the state pays the teachers as state employees.

We need to rewrite the whole system and stop building failure into the plan. It needs to be NEW, not the same old programs.

And for God’s sake, keep the special interests out of the school system!

[oscar]

Originally Posted by Accountable

How long has your government taken on responsibiity of educating the children of these unreliable illiterate parents? I'd wager that it's been more than a generation, as it has been here. That means that the government's only done a half-arse job. Shouldn't we at least consider that?

Without googling all the statistics, i would say generally that this generation is better educated than previous in this country.
We do have a perfectly legal opt out option here as well where parents can take their kids out of school and educate them themselves at home. Hardly anyone does this.
It should be considered that the government has done a half-arss job i agree but i just feel that it would be far worse if it were left to parents own inititive.
I would say one reason the government does it here, is so no child can ever say that they have been denied an education. Surely, we'd be taking a hell of a gamble, to let the government off the hook and rely on parents?
For one, we now live in a 'greed' society with the biggest house, the best car etc and mum and dad have to go go to work and hold down two full time jobs to pay for it. They can't have both.

[K.Snyder]

Originally Posted by Accountable

For those who voted for Obama because of promises to "fix" the education system (which is the responsibility of individual states, not the federal gov't, by the way), you may find that they were standard pap of politics.

I have a huge problem with good being limited to those to whom can achieve it. The President of the United States of America should be permitted to influence all that which is good, otherwise you have a government harmonious around laziness. Unacceptable!

[Accountable]

Originally Posted by oscar

Without googling all the statistics, i would say generally that this generation is better educated than previous in this country.
We do have a perfectly legal opt out option here as well where parents can take their kids out of school and educate them themselves at home. Hardly anyone does this.
It should be considered that the government has done a half-arss job i agree but i just feel that it would be far worse if it were left to parents own inititive.
I would say one reason the government does it here, is so no child can ever say that they have been denied an education. Surely, we'd be taking a hell of a gamble, to let the government off the hook and rely on parents?
For one, we now live in a 'greed' society with the biggest house, the best car etc and mum and dad have to go go to work and hold down two full time jobs to pay for it. They can't have both.

The the responsibility is still left in the parents' hands on how to educate their children. Good. My point was and is that education is not the government's responsibility. We've delegated part of that responsibility to gov't, but the decision ultimately rests with the parents.