Homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?

[K.Snyder]

Originally Posted by AussiePam

Some of the other stuff was masturbation and bestiality, the advertising industry. The topic being discussed was "Should homosexuality taught to children as natural acceptable?"



I appreciate that you believe your argument was a formulation of logic.

BUT logic is normally considered to be about making valid inferences from true premises.

You are entitled to your opinion, but it is just that - your opinion.

I've never at any point wished to suggest that anything I've said in this thread wasn't my opinion.

And it's considered an opinion, appropriately enough, when one assumes their true premises are actually true considering it's been proved one has had an opinion to begin with. "Valid inferences" is what follows.

Premise: a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn) "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not play" WordNet Search - 3.0

My right to an opinion renders the premise true and my conclusion from said opinion gives credence to those inferences, from which, upon this logic, makes it very valid by default.

And masturbation and bestiality is brought up to suggest they're relevant, in my mind, because I deem them both to be unnatural, yet some do not see the parallel between a lack of biological response being my primary argument and their hypothetical dislike of the thought anyone would teach children such a vile act

It brings about the definition of "exceptions" based off of this logic and is inaccurate from which defines those said peoples as using the definition of "acceptance" to define "nature"

[yaaarrrgg]

Originally Posted by K.Snyder

Interesting hypothesis that!

Here, you test homosexuals(through reports having been handed down and taught to your family of course) being the dominant species in 100,000 and I will test heterosexuals and their potential to being the dominant species in 100,00 years.

On the same line of reasoning, you can argue that dinosaurs are unnatural / unacceptable creatures, because they went extinct.

[gmc]

Originally Posted by K.Snyder

I've never at any point wished to suggest that anything I've said in this thread wasn't my opinion.

And it's considered an opinion, appropriately enough, when one assumes their true premises are actually true considering it's been proved one has had an opinion to begin with. "Valid inferences" is what follows.

Premise: a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn) "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not play" WordNet Search - 3.0

My right to an opinion renders the premise true and my conclusion from said opinion gives credence to those inferences, from which, upon this logic, makes it very valid by default.

And masturbation and bestiality is brought up to suggest they're relevant, in my mind, because I deem them both to be unnatural, yet some do not see the parallel between a lack of biological response being my primary argument and their hypothetical dislike of the thought anyone would teach children such a vile act

It brings about the definition of "exceptions" based off of this logic and is inaccurate from which defines those said peoples as using the definition of "acceptance" to define "nature"

compact oxford english dictionary

opinion

• noun 1 a view or judgement not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. 2 the beliefs or views of people in general: public opinion. 3 an estimation of quality or worth. 4 a formal statement of advice by an expert or professional.

If your basic premise is flawed then so is your logic. You have a right to your opinion and if you choose to ignore all the evidence that suggests homosexuality is a natural phenomenon- that's your choice but just because you have an opinion doesn't make you right and everybody else wrong.

Compact Oxford English Dictionary

prejudice

• noun 1 preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or experience. 2 unjust behaviour formed on such a basis. 3 chiefly Law harm that may result from some action or judgement.

• verb 1 give rise to prejudice in (someone); make biased. 2 chiefly Law cause harm to (a state of affairs).

You are prejudiced and homophobic. A strongly felt prejudice, no matter how strongly, is still just an unreasoning opinion. You just think everybody should be as prejudiced as you are and because prejudice is unreasoning any responses that are reasonable you will not be prepared to listen to. People like you imo should not be allowed to dictate what other people's children are taught-teach your own if you must but if you are afraid your children will grow up not sharing your prejudices maybe you should home school and cut then off from society.
Prejudice be it racist, misogynistic or homophobic tends to go out the window once you start seeing other people as just that-other people who might be different. It takes a lot of self esteem and self respect to be able to do that though. If you are intelligent enough you should be able to get beyond your prejudices.

I object to bestiality because the animal is hardly a willing party. It's as wrong as cutting off a dog's tails just to make them look better-and no I'm not a vegan. Sex between willing human adults in any shape or form is their own business.

Your attitude to masturbation suggest you have been given a strange complex of sexual hangups somewhere in your upbringing. Would you make it a criminal offence as well if you could? Either that or you are just out to wind everybody up. If this thread hasn't been a wind up you have my sympathy.

[AussiePam]

Originally Posted by K.Snyder

My right to an opinion renders the premise true and my conclusion from said opinion gives credence to those inferences, from which, upon this logic, makes it very valid by default.

The world is flat. It is my opinion the world is flat. Therefore the premise that the world is flat is true. And we can deduce logically and validly that if you travel to the edge of the flat earth, you will fall over the edge. This is a valid conclusion by default. NOT.

Some of us have formally studied logic in the course of mathematics, computer science, philosophy. I know it's not normally taught in schools these days and more's the pity. It's really a most interesting and useful discipline. I only mention it because you keep insisting that you're being logical etc. Your local library probably has some textbooks if you want to learn about thinking, believing, knowing, constructing a compelling argument.

I'm done.

[Ozay]

I don't think the word 'natural' if that is what is being used is appropriate but i wouldn't say there is anything wrong with it as some people are born this way and if that is the case then they can't help being gay. Apparently you do get some gay animals so it is in nature but i don't think teachers need to use the word 'natural' to describe it. Funnily enough a teacher at my old school who everyone was sure was latent homosexual asked the whole class 'do you think homosexuality is natural?' many felt uncomfortable answering this question it could have been phrased better such as 'what is your opnion on homosexuality?'. One thing that makes me wonder about civil partnerships is which surname do they use once they are married?

[Omni_Skittles]

Originally Posted by AussiePam

Omni - I know you have been taught a particular religious position on this, and that's fine of course, but when you say men aren't made to impregnate men, and also speak of women not impregnating women, it makes it seem that you see sex only in terms of impregnation, or the possibility of impregnation.

If you take it that God created every man and woman - it seems He, in his wisdom, made all of us pretty imperfectly. We aren't all 100% male hormones, or 100% female hormones. We're all somewhere on the scale and mostly predominantly one thing or the other. But still, what about men who are chemically predisposed to feeling attracted to other men, or women ditto. It complicates their lives very much. Like Saint, I feel lucky to be clear in my gender identity, but it does seem to be luck of the draw. Maybe there are some cases where a person can decide to curb or redirect their sexual feelings, but many cannot - and for them their feelings are entirely natural. Made by the same hand that made you - if you believe we are all God's children.

A clear and 100% socially accepted, sexual identity is a blessing not apparently given to all. And for those who don't have this, I'm not going to be their judge, or exclude them, or despise them as if they were less than human. They are part of the human family like the rest of us.

As for sexuality merely being for procreation, impregnation - that would mean that a wife who is alreay pregnant should not have sex with her husband until such time as he can possibly impregnate her again.

Where is the human warmth aspect, the togetherness, emotional help, intimacy???

Where I probably most agree with the perceived argument is that homosexuality should not be promoted as a lifestyle choice. It isn't, any more than heterosexuality is. It's one aspect of life - just one part of a whole human being.

Fine, but it's normal then for humans to sleep with animals because we share a bond and love with it. Totally natural. Therefore that should as well be taught in our schools and that's why i'm homeschooling my kids whenever i get them lol

[AussiePam]

Originally Posted by Omni_Skittles

Fine, but it's normal then for humans to sleep with animals because we share a bond and love with it. Totally natural. Therefore that should as well be taught in our schools and that's why i'm homeschooling my kids whenever i get them lol

Omni - It's hard to know what to say to you. You're obviously a nice kid, trying to do the right thing. Like we all are. I'm Christian too, and do not support children being taught that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, or that bestiality is anything but a perversion. Kids are curious - they, like you, need to be exposed to life, not just brainwashed. They need to learn, gradually, to think, not just trot out religious platitudes by rote.

Home schooling is, I know, very popular in America. And I've met a few transplants here who did it to their children... who would occasionally be allowed to play with my children. They were academically bright kids, but in all cases socially clueless. They'd missed out on the rough and tumble of the playground, of coping with different attitudes, learning give and take, and how to reconcile differences, talk about things. I don't think you'll be doing your future children a favour by cocooning them. They'll meet reality soon enough, whatever you do, but just may not be able to deal with it.

Anyway, that's my opinion. I often have dangerous ideas. One of my dangerous ideas is that everyone should spend 3 months somewhere else, in safety, but separated from their own 'tribe'. In some place foreign both in language and ideas to all they have experienced before. I think that would broaden all our outlooks and make us all much less blinkered.

[Omni_Skittles]

Originally Posted by AussiePam

Omni - It's hard to know what to say to you. You're obviously a nice kid, trying to do the right thing. Like we all are. I'm Christian too, and do not support children being taught that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, or that bestiality is anything but a perversion. Kids are curious - they, like you, need to be exposed to life, not just brainwashed. They need to learn, gradually, to think, not just trot out religious platitudes by rote.

Home schooling is, I know, very popular in America. And I've met a few transplants here who did it to their children... who would occasionally be allowed to play with my children. They were academically bright kids, but in all cases socially clueless. They'd missed out on the rough and tumble of the playground, of coping with different attitudes, learning give and take, and how to reconcile differences, talk about things. I don't think you'll be doing your future children a favour by cocooning them. They'll meet reality soon enough, whatever you do, but just may not be able to deal with it.

Anyway, that's my opinion. I often have dangerous ideas. One of my dangerous ideas is that everyone should spend 3 months somewhere else, in safety, but separated from their own 'tribe'. In some place foreign both in language and ideas to all they have experienced before. I think that would broaden all our outlooks and make us all much less blinkered.

I'm not entirely concerned with religion here. Homosexuality as a lifestyle isn't natural. I mean sure i can give you every verse in the Bible that says homosexuality is a sin, But seriously just logically I would think that it would be so obvious homosexuality is not natural... and are you kidding me? My whole life has been a broadening experience... I mean living on the reservation and then to this world is completely different... I've adapted pretty well, and now I live in dallas now, and work with homosexuals as a ministry... I don't yell at there faces and tell them there going to hell but i get to listen to story after story of how they were molested as children, or how they were just fed up with men... and so on... some of these issues go into the psyche not the anatomy...

[K.Snyder]

Originally Posted by gmc

compact oxford english dictionary


If your basic premise is flawed then so is your logic. You have a right to your opinion and if you choose to ignore all the evidence that suggests homosexuality is a natural phenomenon- that's your choice but just because you have an opinion doesn't make you right and everybody else wrong.

Compact Oxford English Dictionary


You are prejudiced and homophobic. A strongly felt prejudice, no matter how strongly, is still just an unreasoning opinion. You just think everybody should be as prejudiced as you are and because prejudice is unreasoning any responses that are reasonable you will not be prepared to listen to. People like you imo should not be allowed to dictate what other people's children are taught-teach your own if you must but if you are afraid your children will grow up not sharing your prejudices maybe you should home school and cut then off from society.
Prejudice be it racist, misogynistic or homophobic tends to go out the window once you start seeing other people as just that-other people who might be different. It takes a lot of self esteem and self respect to be able to do that though. If you are intelligent enough you should be able to get beyond your prejudices.

I object to bestiality because the animal is hardly a willing party. It's as wrong as cutting off a dog's tails just to make them look better-and no I'm not a vegan. Sex between willing human adults in any shape or form is their own business.

Your attitude to masturbation suggest you have been given a strange complex of sexual hangups somewhere in your upbringing. Would you make it a criminal offence as well if you could? Either that or you are just out to wind everybody up. If this thread hasn't been a wind up you have my sympathy.

Neither does your opinion make you right. The difference being that you're the one presenting your opinion as being true as opposed to I from which I've given my opinion and gave you the reasoning as to why I know homosexuality to be unnatural. You've wanted me to be "prejudice" from your first post. Quite frankly you haven't understood a word I've said. I told you I didn't want any children taught that homosexuality were natural and you can't help but presume I'm implying I'd rather have children taught the exact opposite. You're creating "prejudice" HUGE difference

It's simply why you feel I'm considering what I've defined as unnatural as being "wrong". I never said anything close, you just want me to so you can get off on creating controversy I've no need for it

[K.Snyder]

Originally Posted by AussiePam

The world is flat. It is my opinion the world is flat. Therefore the premise that the world is flat is true. And we can deduce logically and validly that if you travel to the edge of the flat earth, you will fall over the edge. This is a valid conclusion by default. NOT.

Some of us have formally studied logic in the course of mathematics, computer science, philosophy. I know it's not normally taught in schools these days and more's the pity. It's really a most interesting and useful discipline. I only mention it because you keep insisting that you're being logical etc. Your local library probably has some textbooks if you want to learn about thinking, believing, knowing, constructing a compelling argument.

I'm done.

I've told you I were presenting my logic as to what I know to be true. It's my logic so claiming it's wrong based off of my reasoning isn't exactly prolific. It's what happens when you resent people for their "opinions".