Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?

[koan]

Originally Posted by K.Snyder

My logic tells me that if others were an illusion they wouldn't be able to harm you physically. If they did they would then have to have entered your physical world.

creative. most people mention being hit with bricks.
Have you never had a dream in which you felt pain?

Logic can't be used to understand the illusion. The mind is ego and wants to live. It will use anything, including spiritual endeavours to reinforce its existence.

Beyond that, there isn't much that can be said to explain it. You either come to know it or you don't.

[Ahso!]

Originally Posted by K.Snyder

Is Ohio the only state with libraries?

Its an illogical question, K.

[K.Snyder]

Originally Posted by Robert J

Its an illogical question, K.

I personally don't like being considered among others to not have the ability to think for themselves/myself. Anyone can educate themselves, all they need is a bit of enthusiasm.

[K.Snyder]

Originally Posted by koan

creative. most people mention being hit with bricks.
Have you never had a dream in which you felt pain?

Logic can't be used to understand the illusion. The mind is ego and wants to live. It will use anything, including spiritual endeavours to reinforce its existence.

Beyond that, there isn't much that can be said to explain it. You either come to know it or you don't.

I've never felt physical pain when dreaming, no.

I believe that receptions from within the body feeds the mind with the impression it's the mind that wishes to live. We give far too much credit to our minds I think. I think personality is derived simply from choices that are induced by the body. "I'm hungry" was only "said" because of the chemical reaction within your body that implied(Not "said") it needed nutrients. The decision to eat anything specific relies solely on what "your" taste buds prefer. Perhaps what "you" wish to eat is simply what "you" like in addition to in how long "your" taste buds have gone without tasting any specific food.

This is why I feel it's not possible to feel pain from dreaming. It's the body sending the pain, not the mind. The mind only receives it. I've thought, during the dream, that I would possibly be hurt physically, but it usually ends in satisfactory results.

Because physical pain is interpreted by the mind a world of illusion would have no ability to distinguish physical pain from mental pain. Without mental pain, being defined by the void left by no physical pain, there would be absolutely no recognition of ones self at all, ultimately rendering not only the thought of "creationism", but thought at all, unforeseen.

My logic.

[koan]

if that's what makes you comfortable it serves a purpose.
i have no desire to make you uncomfortable.

[K.Snyder]

Originally Posted by koan

if that's what makes you comfortable it serves a purpose.
i have no desire to make you uncomfortable.

Yes I'm sure you wouldn't dream of making me uncomfortable.

[Ahso!]

Originally Posted by koan

Logic can't be used to understand the illusion. The mind is ego and wants to live. It will use anything, including spiritual endeavours to reinforce its existence.

vegetation wants to live too and vegetation does not have a brain. Or is your use of "mind" different than that? Every species lives to survive regardless of intellect or consciousness. Are you making the argument that the brain as an organ is an entity in itself? If so doesn't that suggest that every organ is a separate entity which deserves self recognition and contains self-awareness?

Originally Posted by koan

Beyond that, there isn't much that can be said to explain it. You either come to know it or you don't.

Honestly, this sounds like a bit of a cop out. Its like a Christian follwer saying people, although made in God's image, cannot understand the mind of God when presented with difficult questions to answer regarding life and creation. It's like saying "faith", which is fine for individual choice of labeling belief but has no basis in fact.

We all exist the same way, why then is it that certain philosophies only apply to some? I personally can't subscribe to linear idea's of much when it comes to existence.

Perhaps you care to elucidate on your theory?

[Ahso!]

Originally Posted by K.Snyder

I've never felt physical pain when dreaming, no.

I believe that receptions from within the body feeds the mind with the impression it's the mind that wishes to live. We give far too much credit to our minds I think. I think personality is derived simply from choices that are induced by the body. "I'm hungry" was only "said" because of the chemical reaction within your body that implied(Not "said") it needed nutrients. The decision to eat anything specific relies solely on what "your" taste buds prefer. Perhaps what "you" wish to eat is simply what you like in addition to in how long "your" taste buds have gone without tasting any specific food.

This is why I feel it's not possible to feel pain from dreaming. It's the body sending the pain, not the mind. The mind only receives it. I've thought, during the dream, that I would possibly be hurt physically, but it usually ends in satisfactory results.

Because physical pain is interpreted by the mind a world of illusion would have no ability to distinguish physical pain from mental pain. Without mental pain, being defined by the void left by no physical pain, there would be absolutely no recognition of ones self at all, ultimately rendering not only the thought of "creationism" but thought at all.

My logic.

Sound Logic(?) it is too, K. Well said. Though from my perspective, your very good explanation of separation of body and mind sounds more intuitive than logical.

Logic is heavily dependent on the mind, isn't it? But your explanations reduces dependence of the mind an refocuses it on the body. I just thought it was interesting how that works with you.

[yaaarrrgg]

This is an interesting thread

The thing about pain, is it is all created by the mind. (IOW, if there were no minds, pain wouldn't exist). So all pain really is mental pain.

While I don't think the world is entirely an illusion, I do admit there's no logical way to prove my assumption to the contrary. Since I can't prove the reliability of my mind using my mind (circular reasoning). I just assume that my perceptions are referencing something beyond myself.

Though by the same token, I don't think we can prove that another person or mind is an illusion either (steps outside the authority of one's experience). How do we know another mind doesn't operate on different principles or laws of physics than our own? Even if everything I see is a hallucination, I can't say the same for everyone else.

Either way, I suppose whether or not the world is an illusion (or to what degree it is) is just a starting assumption. And it's not really testable either way. What kind of observation could we make to determine which assumption is correct?

Some philosophers of science like Karl Popper will argue (and I think they might be right) that unless an idea can generate a testable prediction, the idea is not *really* saying anything at all. Grammatically, it might look like a sentence, but semantically, it's void of any concrete meaning. I wonder if such phrases in language are more like tribal identifiers, or ornaments, like tattoos. Both "the world is real" or "the world is not real."

Logic doesn't prove the assumptions, it only flows from them. The reason one set of assumptions are chosen over other usually has more to do with the simplicity of the set (Occam's Razor), or how fruitful they are in generating new ideas.

[K.Snyder]

Originally Posted by Robert J

Sound Logic(?) it is too, K. Well said. Though from my perspective, your very good explanation of separation of body and mind sounds more intuitive than logical.

Logic is heavily dependent on the mind, isn't it? But your explanations reduces dependence of the mind an refocuses it on the body. I just thought it was interesting how that works with you.

The body is what thinks for us. Our minds lets us know how we feel. All logic is is math. 1+1 has to equal 2. The body adds 1+1 from which will always equal 2 regardless of whether the mind interpenetrates it or not.