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Thread: Meg's Pub..... philosophers club.

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    Re: Meg's Pub..... philosophers club.

    Quote Originally Posted by magentaflame View Post
    I thought of this thread because ive been thinking lately ....where do people get their ideas for life choices from? Why do we have the legal systems that we do? Why do people believe in ancient myths and legends turned dieties? How come like some species we 'dont' kill off our parents when they become infirm? What ecactly is punishment and whats the sence in retribution, compensation and revenge?

    Another words......"what's all that about?"

    First topic of discussion.....John Stuart Mill...basically said...'the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community , against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant'....

    Discuss. ...Whats your take on that assertion?
    I'd say that is one of the most fundamental statements of rights that could possibly be made and that it should be made in every capitol in the world.

    Then we need to define what constitutes harm to others.

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    Re: Meg's Pub..... philosophers club.

    Quote Originally Posted by magentaflame View Post
    Id also like to marry that last philosophical argument up with Rousseau's "Social contract" ....where by we all live to a degree today, that the individual in return for protection gives up certain freedoms (not rights) to an authority in return protected from ie war starvation unemployment etc)
    That liberty and equality will basically be there for everyone.and this system protects the will of one person against another. But laws made collectively will not impinge on individual freedoms.
    Just wondering if this philosophy of governing still works?
    Too much danger that the authority will not keep up its end of the bargain - protecting us from starvation, unemployment etc. Too many of our governments are failing even such basic commitments.

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    Re: Meg's Pub..... philosophers club.

    Fourpart
    Could be why suicide isnt illegal anymore and (in my state anyway) assisted dying is legal

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    Re: Meg's Pub..... philosophers club.

    Whats happened in the past when people have lost confidence in government ?
    Last time it was a swing toward socialism/communism/republics/nationalism.....do we have any other ideas??

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    Re: Meg's Pub..... philosophers club.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    Too much danger that the authority will not keep up its end of the bargain - protecting us from starvation, unemployment etc. Too many of our governments are failing even such basic commitments.
    I wonder if we even have individual governments anymore?
    I mean, the establishment is there, they are voted for.....we percieve a government.
    But....are our governments illusions? Are they really in charge to the extent that they can protect us?
    Privatisation? Do the people(governing body) own their own countries anymore?
    Is there a shift just like there was when monarchys were set aside as supreme rulers and parliaments/republics took control?

    And if there has been a shift.......whos in control now?

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    Re: Meg's Pub..... philosophers club.

    Quote Originally Posted by magentaflame View Post
    I wonder if we even have individual governments anymore?
    I mean, the establishment is there, they are voted for.....we percieve a government.
    But....are our governments illusions? Are they really in charge to the extent that they can protect us?
    Privatisation? Do the people(governing body) own their own countries anymore?
    Is there a shift just like there was when monarchys were set aside as supreme rulers and parliaments/republics took control?

    And if there has been a shift.......whos in control now?
    The multi-national corporations - they have a higher GDP than many governments and appear to be able to buy what they want.

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    Re: Meg's Pub..... philosophers club.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    The multi-national corporations - they have a higher GDP than many governments and appear to be able to buy what they want.

    Including governments?
    I wonder if thats just our perception of the world? You can buy what you want, become very powerful.....but that doesnt wash over people as governning.....unless ....there is an ownership going on with a new genepool of over 6 billion slaves owned by 1% ers.(in my view thats what the multi nationals are. They may be giving it a good go.....but i doubt that kind existance would last very long. Tops 200 years? Before a new revolution?
    Last edited by Betty Boop; 01-04-2018 at 04:12 PM. Reason: fixed quote box

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    Re: Meg's Pub..... philosophers club.

    So many issues rise from those basic questions.

    As I recall a college course (so many years ago) that discussed the issue, one of the examples they gave was a person that owns a piece of property with a river running through it. Those who own property, or live, downstream depend on it for drinking water and to tend their crops. Does the person have the right to put a dam on the river to keep all the water for himself? Does he have the right to charge those living downstream for water? Does he have the right to divert the river to a neighboring property owner who is willing to pay more for it? Does he have the right to dump toxic refuse into the river if it increases his profit margin?

    If you substitute "state" for "person", wars have been fought over this issue, throughout history.

    Right now, I could assemble a group of friends who would strongly disagree on some of the issues raised, yet all are "reasonable" people.

    If the "person" is a corporation, do they have a duty to the community in which they live, regarding the use of the river, to their employees, or only to their stockholders?

    Even now, the US government is making yet another change to the standards regarding parts of this ancient issue.

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    Re: Meg's Pub..... philosophers club.

    Quote Originally Posted by magentaflame View Post
    Including governments?
    I wonder if thats just our perception of the world? You can buy what you want, become very powerful.....but that doesnt wash over people as governning.....unless ....there is an ownership going on with a new genepool of over 6 billion slaves owned by 1% ers.(in my view thats what the multi nationals are. They may be giving it a good go.....but i doubt that kind existance would last very long. Tops 200 years? Before a new revolution?
    I think that there are quite a lot of instances of multi-nationals bribing / blackmailing governments by promising to move facilities to a country / threatening to close their facilities in a country. Until there is a global taxation agency they can play one country against another as to who gets their tax payments / who gets their employee count.

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    Re: Meg's Pub..... philosophers club.

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    Oooohhhhh.....thats happened a couple of times down my way. One fixed itself with a flood (dont screw with nature right?) The other was a local policeman that stopped water from going to a dairy of all places...(that was a natural stream, and he got into trouble)
    Im not sure about the laws regarding that but doesnt the government own (or has jurisdiction ) to a certain depth under the ground a.d a certain height above it? And thats how they can rule in these cases? Hence emviromental departments etc? Interedtingly that answer could change every decade i reckon.

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