thoughts on evolution please

[gmc]

[quote=farmer giles;1216372]

Originally Posted by Accountable

You're trying to find scientific proof of faith?

there is no proof to be found as i believe he/she/it does not exist maybe i'm looking for proof that evolution exsists ..who knows


a fantastic post i agree with every word ,i wish i had your word skills to get my points across in such a way

Thank you. But actually, having to think about what I post here has improved my communication skills considerably I think. Having your arguments being picked apart by fellow posters and trying to put things across to people whose world view is so different to your own doesn't half make you think.

you might find this of interest-it's in paperback as well

The Seven Daughters of Eve (hardcover) (Main Page)

YouTube - Part 1 DNA - Science Says

posted by fubar

Very well put. I think that the only reason that there the different religions aren't exterminating each other is that the west has so many secular governments. No government with a strong religious element can resist the push to enforce their religion on everybody. No matter what they say Iran and Saudi do not have religious freedom for all.

If you look at European religious wars and the deaths and devastation they caused you begin to understand how we ended up with mainly secular governments.

[OpenMind]

A book you would enjoy reading would be Evolution by Steve Baxter. He puts a nice twist into it too.

The Seven Daughters of Eve is quite heavy going in places though the separate depictions of the lives of each of Eve's daughters make entertaining reading. That research is still going on now.

[farmer giles]

Originally Posted by OpenMind

A book you would enjoy reading would be Evolution by Steve Baxter. He puts a nice twist into it too.

The Seven Daughters of Eve is quite heavy going in places though the separate depictions of the lives of each of Eve's daughters make entertaining reading. That research is still going on now.

thanks open mind

is that the book that says we all come from africa at some point

[Lon]

One thing you can say about Evolution is that it keeps evolving.

[OpenMind]

Originally Posted by farmer giles

thanks open mind

is that the book that says we all come from africa at some point

'The Seven Daughters of Eve' were traced back to North Africa. This book explores the movement of humans over the centuries beginning with these women. For reasons he wouldn't give, the author wouldn't go further back than the seven women all of whom lived at different times. But he finishes the book by writing a story depicting the probable lives of these women which is interesting to read.

'Evolution' depicts one possible evoltion of mankind beginning with prehistoric animals and is based on research the author did with scientists.

[gmc]

Originally Posted by OpenMind

'The Seven Daughters of Eve' were traced back to North Africa. This book explores the movement of humans over the centuries beginning with these women. For reasons he wouldn't give, the author wouldn't go further back than the seven women all of whom lived at different times. But he finishes the book by writing a story depicting the probable lives of these women which is interesting to read.

'Evolution' depicts one possible evoltion of mankind beginning with prehistoric animals and is based on research the author did with scientists.

Actually he does make it clear in chapter 14 (guess who has just read it) There are seven major genetic clusters from which 96% of europeans can trace their descent. The book was about the origin of Europeans not the rest of the world and this research has finally laid to rest the controversy over whether Neanderthals have any part in our make up and also the once popular theory that the hunter gatherers in europe had been displaced by more advanced farmers moving out of the middle east. They weren't.

DNA research is new technology, the conclusions put forth in the book are less than ten years old. It is not a belief but a scientific theory which means if new evidence comes along that stands up to scrutiny it may change or be superseded.

He doesn't finish the book with stories about each of the seven he finishes it with a summary of how things stand at the time of printing.

Over the last ten years research from all corners of the globe have come up with 26 clans of equivalent status in the world making the total 33 world wide of those 33, 13 are from africa. It appears on the face of it hat one of those thirteen at some point moved out of africa and spawned the other 20. Clearly there is a lot of questions still to be answered.

This is all brand new research and of course the religious have leapt on it as proof of the existence of eve and therefore the truth of the garden of eden myth while continuing to ignore scientific evidence that points to conclusions they don't want to think about.

'

Evolution' depicts one possible evoltion of mankind beginning with prehistoric animals and is based on research the author did with scientists.

despite wondering what kind of experiments he did on the scientists I think I'll have a hunt for that book.

[G#Gill]

From a very early age (at Sunday school), I have always questioned some people's belief that, for instance, a 'being' came along, got some materials together and fashioned a human being ! This was at the age of around 7 years old. I have always been taught to ask questions - about anything!

It seemed obvious, to me at that tender age, that the human being just could not have been 'manufactured' and presented to the earth as a finished article!

I have read all sorts of books about such things, and watched so many fascinating documentaries on the TV about how the human being came to exist on earth, and it wasn't through being moulded from a lump of plasticine or similar! The human being, and other species evolved initially from very basic living cells, and from an existence beneath the sea. During this evolution, certain species carried on evolving, whilst others stagnated at a certain stage of evolution, for various reasons - adapting to environment, conditions like climate, etc., hence the differences between species that we find today.

Another school of thought is that at one time Mars was inhabited, but those inhabitants realised that their planet was 'dying', so they searched for another planet that could support them - they found Earth, moved here, and set up home.
They, being fairly territorial, split into different 'groups', some of which 'cloned' the apes so that these creatures could become 'the fighting force' to protect that particular group against any other 'group' which may want to take over an area. This strange thought would possibly account for certain similarities between the human being and the ape, as we know them today. The original 'Martians' would have been far more advanced than anything we know about at present.

This last thought is really as vast a subject as the 'evolution' subject, and therefore really needs a thread to itself. No I aint starting one, I really haven't got the knowledge or inclination.

As an after-thought, no Spot I am not providing 'links', or checkable evidence to back up all the above, they are merely my own thoughts about things that I find fairly intriguing. No doubt you may be able to shoot me down in flames, but I really don't care. They are my thoughts !

It is healthy to question everything !

I do believe............................... I believe in myself !

[farmer giles]

Originally Posted by G#Gill

From a very early age (at Sunday school), I have always questioned some people's belief that, for instance, a 'being' came along, got some materials together and fashioned a human being ! This was at the age of around 7 years old. I have always been taught to ask questions - about anything!

It seemed obvious, to me at that tender age, that the human being just could not have been 'manufactured' and presented to the earth as a finished article!

I have read all sorts of books about such things, and watched so many fascinating documentaries on the TV about how the human being came to exist on earth, and it wasn't through being moulded from a lump of plasticine or similar! The human being, and other species evolved initially from very basic living cells, and from an existence beneath the sea. During this evolution, certain species carried on evolving, whilst others stagnated at a certain stage of evolution, for various reasons - adapting to environment, conditions like climate, etc., hence the differences between species that we find today.

Another school of thought is that at one time Mars was inhabited, but those inhabitants realised that their planet was 'dying', so they searched for another planet that could support them - they found Earth, moved here, and set up home.
They, being fairly territorial, split into different 'groups', some of which 'cloned' the apes so that these creatures could become 'the fighting force' to protect that particular group against any other 'group' which may want to take over an area. This strange thought would possibly account for certain similarities between the human being and the ape, as we know them today. The original 'Martians' would have been far more advanced than anything we know about at present.

This last thought is really as vast a subject as the 'evolution' subject, and therefore really needs a thread to itself. No I aint starting one, I really haven't got the knowledge or inclination.

As an after-thought, no Spot I am not providing 'links', or checkable evidence to back up all the above, they are merely my own thoughts about things that I find fairly intriguing. No doubt you may be able to shoot me down in flames, but I really don't care. They are my thoughts !

It is healthy to question everything !

I do believe............................... I believe in myself !

i have just checked snopes and it does seem that these are indeed gills own thoughts

great theory gill ,the thing i cant get my head round is how angry the god squad get when you talk about evolution ,but it makes more sense than a super being that has always been there and watches every thing we do yet never helps out and refuses to show himself,he will give you unconditional love on the condition you do everything he says,or else this loving god will burn you in hell for eternity

[G#Gill]

Originally Posted by farmer giles

i have just checked snopes and it does seem that these are indeed gills own thoughts

great theory gill ,the thing i cant get my head round is how angry the god squad get when you talk about evolution ,but it makes more sense than a super being that has always been there and watches every thing we do yet never helps out and refuses to show himself,he will give you unconditional love on the condition you do everything he says,or else this loving god will burn you in hell for eternity

One of their favourite sayings is 'The Lord helps those who help themselves' in other words, as far as I can tell, you just have to get on with it yourself and not expect help from anybody or any thing. It's their way of excusing the lack of assistance from this 'super being'. As I say................ I believe in myself !

[farmer giles]

Originally Posted by G#Gill

One of their favourite sayings is 'The Lord helps those who help themselves' in other words, as far as I can tell, you just have to get on with it yourself and not expect help from anybody or any thing. It's their way of excusing the lack of assistance from this 'super being'. As I say................ I believe in myself !

here is a great post i borrowed

some people have such a way with words ...i dont hence me borrowing his/hers

Something from nothing is not a scientific enigma, as long as the "something" is informationally simple.

Virtual particles are created/destroyed all the time from "nothing" - energy borrowed from quantum fluctuations. There is no magic or complexity. The Big Bang theory starts with the simplest thing possible - unstructured energy decaying into the simplest form of matter.

But any creator God would have to be hugely informationally complex. In any creation theory, it is the complexity that has to be explained.

The Big Bang starts simple, and becomes complex over time. That seems both natural and echoes our own evolution. (that's really the only tie between the subjects IMO)

Now how do you start with complexity? A God complex enough to do all the creating, but with an unknown heritage? Where does all the organised information come from to make a god?

Incidentally, Darwin's great leap was in explaining how the organised complexity of life could arise from simple beginnings - something that had previously baffled people and pushed them towards religious "magical" models. Such information comes in truly microscopic steps over billions of years. It is the ratcheting effect of evolution that adds up tiny inputs over time that was the revelation.(sic)

By complexity, I don't mean complexity of form. Throw a handful of dust on the floor, and the result will be a unique and complex pattern. But such a pattern would contain little or no organised complex information.

It is the origin of the organised complexity of God's information content which is unexplained by priests. The scientific model is a good one for explaining the increasing information complexity of the visible universe, and indeed, ourselves.

If the alternative model is "an enormously complex God did it" then it simply leaves more to be explained IMHO.

BTW: Where did the information content come from to start this thread? Ultimately; biological and memetic Darwinian evolution. I thought that was implicit in the analogy, but didn't add to it.