Criminalized minorities

[K.Snyder]

Originally Posted by anastrophe

correction, silly conflation. most violent crime is about power, not poverty.

Where I live, on the west end of the inner city, murder runs rampant related to the selling and buying of crack cocaine and other various drugs. I dont see too many middle class kids growing up hooked on crack and heroin, and killing people in cold blood while they sit in their vehicles in the middle of the street.

I dont buy how anyone can say that poverty isnt a key factor in crime, whether its violent or not. Besides, were talking about incarceration, not just violent crimes.

[Accountable]

Originally Posted by K.Snyder

Im not so sure seeking insight can be correlated with such an accusation.

Are you to suggest such a question is illogical?

From the dawn of man kind we have known the truths of criminalised behavior to be evident with that of the man forced into poverty. Poverty has been and always will be a key factor in the amount of crimes being committed on a daily basis. Having said that, without justifying the means of such behaviour, while at the same time showing empathy as opposed to judgemental forkitude, one has to wonder why a people being Labeled as a minority are the ones actually being incarcerated.

Is it due to the fact of racial profiling limiting the success of the enthusiastic mindset of the peoples in question, or pure coincidence?

Why should such a question be intolerable?

Seems like a ligitamate one to me.

I never called it intolerable, only that I don't see the point.

Only a small number of "a people being Labeled as a minority" are committing crimes. The vast majority pursue the American Dream as they see it, or at least obey the law while living their lives as they see fit. The ones "actually being incarcerated" as you put it are the ones convicted of committing crimes - criminals.

[Accountable]

Originally Posted by K.Snyder

Where I live, on the west end of the inner city, murder runs rampant related to the selling and buying of crack cocaine and other various drugs. I dont see too many middle class kids growing up hooked on crack and heroin, and killing people in cold blood while they sit in their vehicles in the middle of the street.

I dont buy how anyone can say that poverty isnt a key factor in crime, whether its violent or not. Besides, were talking about incarceration, not just violent crimes.

Assuming for the sake of the conversation that you're right. How are poverty-stricken descendents of slaves different from any other poverty-stricken people?

[K.Snyder]

Originally Posted by Accountable

Assuming for the sake of the conversation that you're right. How are poverty-stricken descendents of slaves different from any other poverty-stricken people?

My point in this goes back to my first post in this thread. Which, I believe, is largely due to the civil rights restricting the opportunities these people could have had, which in turn would result in better housing, better living conditions, and an end result of not nearly as many crimes being committed by these people forced into poverty. Am I justifying their criminalistic behavior? no. well all but the stealing aspect. I mean come on. If bread were only made for whites only wouldnt you try and steal a loaf to survive?

I suppose to sum it all up, what makes them different is racial profiling.

How could one deny this?

[Accountable]

Originally Posted by K.Snyder

My point in this goes back to my first post in this thread. Which, I believe, is largely due to the civil rights restricting the opportunities these people could have had, which in turn would result in better housing, better living conditions, and an end result of not nearly as many crimes being committed by these people forced into poverty. Am I justifying their criminalistic behavior? no. well all but the stealing aspect. I mean come on. If bread were only made for whites only wouldnt you try and steal a loaf to survive?

I suppose to sum it all up, what makes them different is racial profiling.

How could one deny this?

Originally Posted by K.Snyder

My point in this goes back to my first post in this thread. Which, I believe, is largely due to the civil rights restricting the opportunities these people could have had, which in turn would result in better housing, better living conditions, and an end result of not nearly as many crimes being committed by these people forced into poverty. Am I justifying their criminalistic behavior? no. well all but the stealing aspect. I mean come on. If bread were only made for whites only wouldnt you try and steal a loaf to survive?

I suppose to sum it all up, what makes them different is racial profiling.

How could one deny this?

You're defining "crime" far too narrowly. The late Ken Lay was a criminal, so was Michael Millken, so is Bernard Ebbers, so is Dennis Kozlowsk, so is Randy Cunningham....and so on.

But that wasn't what spot was on about.

[Accountable]

Originally Posted by Diuretic

You're defining "crime" far too narrowly. The late Ken Lay was a criminal, so was Michael Millken, so is Bernard Ebbers, so is Dennis Kozlowsk, so is Randy Cunningham....and so on.

But that wasn't what spot was on about.

Any descendent of American slaves has a tougher row to hoe than most other Americans. I don't dispute that. It seems that contrubutors to this thread are using that ancestral history to give current criminals some kind of pass.

Let's see some meaningful statistics. What's the percentage of this group that don't go to prison, that finish high school, further their education or get jobs, that raise responsible children, that contribute to society?

But be careful that you don't take statistics about inner-city denizens and try to claim it fairly represents what we call African-Americans.

But be careful that you don't take statistics about inner-city denizens and try to claim it fairly represents what we call African-Americans.

A telling point.

[anastrophe]

Originally Posted by Accountable

Any descendent of American slaves has a tougher row to hoe than most other Americans. I don't dispute that.

i do. we're generations out from the last living actual slaves from the south. the last person who claimed to have been born into slavery died in 1979 - also claiming he was 137 years old, which strains credulity. Nevertheless, the emancipation proclamation was signed in 1863. setting aside the century of racism and segregation in the intervening hundred years - and focusing again on the specifics of the claim - that a descendent of a slave has a tougher row to hoe - doesn't sway me.

John H. Johnson:

Born January 19, 1918 in rural Arkansas City, Arkansas, John H. Johnson was the grandson of slaves. His father Leroy Johnson was killed in a sawmill accident when "young Johnny" was eight years of age. His mother Gertrude Jenkins Johnson further impoverished did not give hope and her faith they could have more than what Arkansas offered. She saved her meager earnings as a cook and washerwoman for years until she could afford to move her family to Chicago.(1)

Born in Arkansas City, Arkansas, in 1918, Johnson began his publishing career in 1942 as editor and publisher of Negro Digest, later Black World, according to a biography published on his company's Web site.
Three years later, he began publishing Ebony, which the company describes as "the No. 1 African-American magazine in the world."
And in 1951 he founded Jet, which the company calls "the world's No. 1 African-American newsweekly magazine."(2)

He had an estimated worth of $500 million US when he died.

(1)http://www.nathanielturner.com/johnhjohnson.htm
(2)http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/08/joh...bit/index.html

am i citing an 'exception' to the implied rule that some here are suggesting that blacks are more prone to be "criminalized" than whites? well, no. i'm citing an extreme. but the reality is that the majority of african americans don't commit crimes. just like the majority of whites and other "races". are blacks incarcerated at a higher rate than other "races"? yes. it's certainly a combination of racism, opportunity, and (sub)culture.

but really, the issue here is, why is spot not providing statistics for descendents of slaves in the carribean? why does spot, who lives in the UK, not have anything to say about incarceration rates amongst minorities in the UK? are we to understand that incarceration rates in the UK are color-blind, so to speak? that would be interesting. more interesting than the bimonthly "here's what's wrong with america" posts we see regularly.