Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

[grh]

Originally Posted by spot

I'd be unhappy to hear that he'd died in jail.

My position on imprisonment is that nobody should ever be released from any prison until the prison itself certifies them to be rehabilitated; that no money is ever given to any prison other than for releasing prisoners; that the certifying prison gets fined every time a prisoner offends after release; and that prison shareholders should have no limited liability to allow them to escape bad short-term decision-making. That's completely simple, it's entirely aimed at developing the most effective rehabilitation programs, it has no punishment or deterrent aspect to imprisonment. Combined with an efficient police force guaranteeing the detection, identification and prosecution of all criminals it would stop crime dead in its tracks. These aren't unattainable ideals, they're targets that nobody seems to want to pursue.

Simon Mann is a danger to the public. Nothing suggests to me that he would stay away from planning further murders if he were currently at liberty. He's in jail for planning murders which he was on his way to commit when he was arrested. General Mattis ought to be alongside him for the same offence if it comes to that - ineptitude is no excuse if the consequence is dead civilians at wedding parties.

So if prison is a business though, what would you do, as a shareholder, with ones like this that you don't see much chance of him changing his ways? Or are we talking a lottery system so that they can't reject a potential prisoner?

You'd be unhappy to hear that he died in jail. Is he allowed to suffer?

[spot]

No, he's not allowed to suffer, he's there (in my proposed setting, that is) to be rehabilitated.

Prisons (in this model) can't pick and choose any more than state schools can, they're not selective entry. The shareholder's profit increases as his skill at genuine rehabilitation increases. The faster he achieves that goal the less it costs him in feeding, clothing and cell provision. The more slapdash he is in his releases, the more he'll be penalized by subsequent recidivism.

There's only one sentence for breaking the law, and that's to be sent to jail. Every sentence is as long or as short as the prison decides it needs to be before they take the chance on claiming their payment.

My intention, ultimately, is to get society to trim back on what they define as criminal behaviour. It's all plus and no minus, this scheme I'm offering.

Originally Posted by spot

No, he's not allowed to suffer, he's there (in my proposed setting, that is) to be rehabilitated.

Prisons (in this model) can't pick and choose any more than state schools can, they're not selective entry. The shareholder's profit increases as his skill at genuine rehabilitation increases. The faster he achieves that goal the less it costs him in feeding, clothing and cell provision. The more slapdash he is in his releases, the more he'll be penalized by subsequent recidivism.

There's only one sentence for breaking the law, and that's to be sent to jail. Every sentence is as long or as short as the prison decides it needs to be before they take the chance on claiming their payment.

My intention, ultimately, is to get society to trim back on what they define as criminal behaviour. It's all plus and no minus, this scheme I'm offering.

Hmm I must think on this more but im not opposed to it after my first thought.

But in my opinion murderers are not rehabilitative, and they remove themselves from society by their actions. If your not going to execute them under capitol punishment then they need to be contained on an island/prison and left to themselves for the reminder of thier natural life. Let them fend for themselves.

[gmc]

Originally Posted by Jester

Can you blame him? Its my experience that the type of folks that do this mercenary thing consider themselves beyond the law, or they consider that there is no law where they are going so its whoever is the strongest. Its all in the connection you have after the fact. If it were my son and I had any sort of pull Id use it.

I think we need to realize that these companies will continue to rise in the light of terror orgs doing the same. If I were Chevron and my guys needed to survey land and some group shot at them Id hire a security detail to protect my men.

I'm not an advocate for this, but I think its a reality.

He was part of a plot to overthrow a government not to guard an oil installation.

Leaving aside what you think of the govt he was trying to overthrow it is wrong that one of the plotters gets away with it because of whose son he is and the rest don't. Never mind whose son he is, that anyone should be above the law is wrong as a matter of principle.

[spot]

Originally Posted by Jester

But in my opinion murderers are not rehabilitative, and they remove themselves from society by their actions. If your not going to execute them under capitol punishment then they need to be contained on an island/prison and left to themselves for the reminder of thier natural life. Let them fend for themselves.

By all means make that so in the US, people there do seem to have a different approach to moral absolutes there. England has a different culture.

Originally Posted by gmc

He was part of a plot to overthrow a government not to guard an oil installation.

Leaving aside what you think of the govt he was trying to overthrow it is wrong that one of the plotters gets away with it because of whose son he is and the rest don't. Never mind whose son he is, that anyone should be above the law is wrong as a matter of principle.

I fully agree with you it is wrong and unjust, my point is that the whole thing was done outside the law, that some get punished and some dont is also outside the law. There is no justice period.

But thats the nature of mercenary companies. I hadn't even ventured a thought into the ligitimacy of the country in question.

GMC as usual we agree God knows how we keep doing that when we come from opposing ideologies.

Originally Posted by spot

By all means make that so in the US, people there do seem to have a different approach to moral absolutes there. England has a different culture.

Perfect, then the military can use it as training ground to sharpen their hunting and tracking skills.

Just kidding Spot.

So you'd agree to that instead of capital punishment? I am rather surprized again.

[spot]

Originally Posted by Jester

So you'd agree to that instead of capital punishment? I am rather surprized again.

For the States? Whatever suits your local conditions, far be it from me to interfere in your internal arrangements. To whatever extent my proposal has merit I'm sure it could be adapted.

My opposition to capital punishment is universal and based on the irreversible nature of the punishment, given the existence of guilty verdicts and subsequent executions against defendants who were subsequently shown beyond reasonable doubt to have been convicted on mistaken evidence. Doctor Crippen springs to mind.

[Bryn Mawr]

Originally Posted by Jester

Hmm I must think on this more but im not opposed to it after my first thought.

But in my opinion murderers are not rehabilitative, and they remove themselves from society by their actions. If your not going to execute them under capitol punishment then they need to be contained on an island/prison and left to themselves for the reminder of thier natural life. Let them fend for themselves.

This pre-supposes that all murderers are the same, with the same motivation and the same mentality.

I'd suggest that a woman who plans and carries out the murder of her husband after years of abuse is of little further danger to society compared to a sociopath who kills for fun.

There are many cases of murderers who, at the end of their sentences, have been released into society and led useful and crime free lives thereafter.

Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr

This pre-supposes that all murderers are the same, with the same motivation and the same mentality.

I'd suggest that a woman who plans and carries out the murder of her husband after years of abuse is of little further danger to society compared to a sociopath who kills for fun.

There are many cases of murderers who, at the end of their sentences, have been released into society and led useful and crime free lives thereafter.

Of course there are different degrees and reasons for murder I should have specified which type, I was refering to the type that kill purposefully without justification.

A woman who gets beaten even once by a man, in my mind she has the right to kill the sob, I'd not convict her... and be just fine living next to her.

It may be that some have not murdered again after a time in prison, as a whole I'm not willing to take that chance in my society. Murderers need to be caged and isolated from all society in my opinion, that being said I think thats a cruel punishment even for a murderer, so in my view, death then, is merciful.