Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

[spot]

Strangely, nobody has mentioned Simon Mann on FG so far.

For the purposes of discussion, assume the word "allegedly" appears at the end of every sentence in the thread. I'm not going to bother writing it.

This chap's been in prison in Zimbabwe for the last three years and he's about to be deported to Equatorial Guinea. He was arrested in Zimbabwe on his way to attempt a coup d'etat against Equatorial Guinea. He and his friends were at Harare in the process of arming themselves to the teeth, and fully intent on killing people when they arrived at their final destination.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6918833.stm discusses his current position, and the likelihood that he'll end up with a 30 year jail term if he's presented there for trial.

Does anyone on the planet have the smallest scintilla of sympathy for this unacceptable face of British mercenary greed?

[gmc]

Originally Posted by spot

Strangely, nobody has mentioned Simon Mann on FG so far.

For the purposes of discussion, assume the word "allegedly" appears at the end of every sentence in the thread. I'm not going to bother writing it.

This chap's been in prison in Zimbabwe for the last three years and he's about to be deported to Equatorial Guinea. He was arrested in Zimbabwe on his way to attempt a coup d'etat against Equatorial Guinea. He and his friends were at Harare in the process of arming themselves to the teeth, and fully intent on killing people when they arrived at their final destination.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6918833.stm discusses his current position, and the likelihood that he'll end up with a 30 year jail term if he's presented there for trial.

Does anyone on the planet have the smallest scintilla of sympathy for this unacceptable face of British mercenary greed?

No and yes. He seems to be getting dealt with more harshly than the others involved. I can't help suspecting that has his name also been Thatcher he would be released by now.

[spot]

Zimbabwe's court of appeal seems to have paid attention to ForumGarden in making its decision.

Simon Mann arrived in Equatorial Guinea this week.

The BBC has a report and a discussion.

[grh]

What exactly is your stand on this person being placed in a prison without them guaranteeing his protection or rehabilitation?

you are completely opposed to anyone just killing the idiot as punishment, aren't you

In the circles I ran with, it was a given that if you were caught in a foriegn country armed to the teeth you were on your own, no one in my country would claim you. It was hoped that a deal could be brokered and that the country you were captured in would want you alive rather than dead or worse. 30 years in a foriegn prison and my main focus would be escape at all cost.

I have had dealings with the mercenary system before and on occasion I suppose I could have been termed a mercenary but when I did it it was for principle not for money, glad I never got caught.

When you make a decision to operate outside the law you get whatever type of law that comes your way.

If you're british enough Spot go organize a retrieval party, thats his best hope.

[gmc]

Originally Posted by Jester

In the circles I ran with, it was a given that if you were caught in a foriegn country armed to the teeth you were on your own, no one in my country would claim you. It was hoped that a deal could be brokered and that the country you were captured in would want you alive rather than dead or worse. 30 years in a foriegn prison and my main focus would be escape at all cost.

I have had dealings with the mercenary system before and on occasion I suppose I could have been termed a mercenary but when I did it it was for principle not for money, glad I never got caught.

When you make a decision to operate outside the law you get whatever type of law that comes your way.

If you're british enough Spot go organize a retrieval party, thats his best hope.

It's not so much that he got caught and imprisoned that is the issue. There's not a lot of sympathy for mercenaries if they get caught in a foreign country. It's more that the son a Maggie Thatcher was also involved and got away with it, presumably because of hid connections.

[spot]

Originally Posted by Jester

If you're british enough Spot go organize a retrieval party, thats his best hope.

I'm sure he has friends better placed to do that than I.

The mercenary company he helped found with Tim Spicer, Sandline, for example, morphed into Aegis Defence Services, the firm we discussed a while ago in relation to trophy videos of Western mercenaries in Iraq shooting up passing traffic for the hell of it, since they're accountable to nobody at all. I think the preferred term these days is "contractor" but I bet the reason people still sign up is because they enjoy killing foreigners without any legal restraint or consequence. Oh, and the pay - they get paid for doing it.

Sandline's old website is still on the web, their meta keyword list tells it all. sandline, conflict, executive outcomes, military, coup, mercenary, revolution, army, junta, war, rebellion, security, sierra leone, africa, defense. Welcome to Sandline International.

Whoever wrote the official Aegis website has a sense of humour. The keywords he used to bubble the site up the Google rankings are "aegis world private security company tim spicer trophy video". I bet Tim Spicer doesn't know that.

[spot]

Originally Posted by grh

What exactly is your stand on this person being placed in a prison without them guaranteeing his protection or rehabilitation?

you are completely opposed to anyone just killing the idiot as punishment, aren't you

I'd be unhappy to hear that he'd died in jail.

My position on imprisonment is that nobody should ever be released from any prison until the prison itself certifies them to be rehabilitated; that no money is ever given to any prison other than for releasing prisoners; that the certifying prison gets fined every time a prisoner offends after release; and that prison shareholders should have no limited liability to allow them to escape bad short-term decision-making. That's completely simple, it's entirely aimed at developing the most effective rehabilitation programs, it has no punishment or deterrent aspect to imprisonment. Combined with an efficient police force guaranteeing the detection, identification and prosecution of all criminals it would stop crime dead in its tracks. These aren't unattainable ideals, they're targets that nobody seems to want to pursue.

Simon Mann is a danger to the public. Nothing suggests to me that he would stay away from planning further murders if he were currently at liberty. He's in jail for planning murders which he was on his way to commit when he was arrested. General Mattis ought to be alongside him for the same offence if it comes to that - ineptitude is no excuse if the consequence is dead civilians at wedding parties.

Originally Posted by spot

I'm sure he has friends better placed to do that than I.

The mercenary company he helped found with Tim Spicer, Sandline, for example, morphed into Aegis Defence Services, the firm we discussed a while ago in relation to trophy videos of Western mercenaries in Iraq shooting up passing traffic for the hell of it, since they're accountable to nobody at all. I think the preferred term these days is "contractor" but I bet the reason people still sign up is because they enjoy killing foreigners without any legal restraint or consequence. Oh, and the pay - they get paid for doing it.

Sandline's old website is still on the web, their meta keyword list tells it all. sandline, conflict, executive outcomes, military, coup, mercenary, revolution, army, junta, war, rebellion, security, sierra leone, africa, defense. Welcome to Sandline International.

Whoever wrote the official Aegis website has a sense of humour. The keywords he used to bubble the site up the Google rankings are "aegis world private security company tim spicer trophy video". I bet Tim Spicer doesn't know that.

There are three or four dozen companies like this out there. I coud name 6 off the top of my head, all made from former operators I either know personally or collaborated with while on active duty.

I have discussed this a hundred times over with them at one time or another. They all know the chances they take, they operate outside the law and outside what I call moral military ethics. They get what they deserve under those circumstances. Some are very much the wild bunch that you seem to relate here. Unfortunatly a few that I know of are professional soldiers with both moral and ethical ideologies and they operate to rescue/protect legitimate personal from war zones or lawless regions.

Many moons ago I detached myself from the US military and went into a very hot region and helped get a small group out, I never fired a shot but was well armed while in the region. Had I been caught I would have expected no help from anyone. There are very few buds that I'd go after should they need help.

Originally Posted by gmc

It's not so much that he got caught and imprisoned that is the issue. There's not a lot of sympathy for mercenaries if they get caught in a foreign country. It's more that the son a Maggie Thatcher was also involved and got away with it, presumably because of hid connections.

Can you blame him? Its my experience that the type of folks that do this mercenary thing consider themselves beyond the law, or they consider that there is no law where they are going so its whoever is the strongest. Its all in the connection you have after the fact. If it were my son and I had any sort of pull Id use it.

I think we need to realize that these companies will continue to rise in the light of terror orgs doing the same. If I were Chevron and my guys needed to survey land and some group shot at them Id hire a security detail to protect my men.

I'm not an advocate for this, but I think its a reality.