What Are They Dying For?

[jimbo]

Originally Posted by gmc

Actually the point of remembrance day in the UK is not only to remember the fallen but also remind ourselves of the futility of war and the consequences of blind obedience to patriotism's call. It is very much to remember them and question why they died and a promise from the living to the dead that it will not happen again. In a very real sense they died so that you COULD question. It's almost an insult to their memory not to question why they died and also not to question why soldiers are again being asked to die for us. As well as sadness IMO you should feel anger at the politicians who so happily go to war with other people's children and wave the banner of patriotism at those who dare to ask why and who would use remembrance day and the sentiments aroused by it for their own purposes to stop the questioning.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Saw the documentary. He makes the point that all wars end at the conference table so why not sit at a table before so many died. Kind of says it all really.

good post

my son chris was 20 years old today the 11th of the 11th

today i looked at the soldiers with their medals on their chest tears streaming down their faces in memory of their fallen friends who probably died at the same age as my lovely son in some foreign mud filled trench or some foreign field ,do you think these brave soldiers dont ask themselves why ..why .. yes they gave their lives for our freedom that we take so much for granted

yes remember them and those that are stil dying today but ask why and maybe if enough people ask why .. then maybe just maybe lessons will be learnt and no more of our brave sons will die in the name of blind patriotism

[CARLA]

Well said Jimbo I agree.

[koan]

Thank you, gmc.

I didn't post this to start a fight, it is sincerely my way of trying to ensure that none of those deaths have been in vain. I always believed this was a day to reflect on the lessons we've learned from wars of the past and did not start it with the current war in mind.

Thank you jimbo, for making a very personal contribution as well.

Despite having very different opinions than many members here, very commonly differing from RedGlitter in our perspective, I don't try to disturb the peace, I try to make my words count and I speak honestly. If that offends anyone I'm not about to apologise. We have limited words left to speak in any given lifetime and I use mine to question, to challenge the status quo and to try and bring new light to our understanding of the world.

War is a terrible fact of life. We can only hope that each one takes us one step closer to the last.

[minks]

Honored in life, honored in death, to each his/her own. As long as we continue to honor them.
my grandfather Curtis S Miller faught in and survived WWII fighting for freedom
My cousin Thomas J Stirling faught in and was seriously wounded in Afghanastan, fighting for peace being a peacekeeper
I owe a great honor to both and all other veterans.

[freetobeme]

We should never forget why our veterans died. They died to keep us free and paid with the ultimate price - their lives. There was no negotiating with Hitler, if these troops had not fought we wouldn't be here talking about it now.

I'm, with RG on this one... tad late in replying just saw this thread.



find me here

[BTS]

Originally Posted by gmc

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Saw the documentary. He makes the point that all wars end at the conference table so why not sit at a table before so many died. Kind of says it all really.

Actually gmc we tried to sit at the BIG table (UN) with Saddam but he snubbed us and the rest of the world for years...... (16 UN Security Sanctions alone)

Maybe dat der table don't work?
Just ask Saddam Insane!!!

Kind of says it all really.

[nvalleyvee]

Originally Posted by koan

Seeing as it is Remembrance/Veteran's Day and that, recently, a few members have said that not everyone should have the freedom of speech and/or a fair trial... I'd like to hear some answers on what our soldiers have died for.

I've also heard that we should take various actions because other countries would do the same. We fight other countries to keep our values and way of life. Again, what are they dying for?

My father died when I was 5 years old. He died in an aircrft that he was the pilot.....he killed himself and his co-pilot .................they SLAMMMED straight into the side of a mountain....downdraft sucked them right in. That hits home every day of the week.

[gmc]

Originally Posted by BTS

Actually gmc we tried to sit at the BIG table (UN) with Saddam but he snubbed us and the rest of the world for years...... (16 UN Security Sanctions alone)

Maybe dat der table don't work?
Just ask Saddam Insane!!!

Kind of says it all really.

Oh Bollocks. Go away have look at the history of how Saddam came to power and stayed in power within the happy collusion of the west and in particular the american government so long as he was doing what they wanted. The time to have kicked saddam out of power was after the first gulf war rather than encourage internal revolt and then sit back and watch while he slaughtered those who rose against him and he re-exerted control.

He never had weapons of mass destruction he had nothing to do with 911 and the only reason for the invasion was to get control of the oil. You've had almost 4,000 killed an forty thousand wounded how many will it take before you start to question what you are told and call your government to account for what they do in your name. Blind patriotism is one of the most destructive forces in politics. That's what we remember on remembrance day. The sheer stupidity of ww1 and the millions that died because to ask why was unpatriotic. We also remember how we stood alone against Nazi Germany

It's not just saddam and his ilk that snub the rest of the world. The US abrogates international treaties like the geneva convention when it suits refuses to sign up to the international court in case an american get called to account, announces it will "renegotiate" trade treaties until it gets what it wants. ignores things like global warming because it might affect your economy -tells the UN either support us or get stuffed and then bleat that nobody likes you and

Pakistan HAS nuclear weapons, forget Iran worry about them. Pakistan USED to be a democracy, it no longer is and does your government support support democracy there? No you back up military dictator in Pakistan who is imprisoning all the secular opposition because they're daft enough to believe he is on your side in the war on terror and will be able to keep the fundamentalists in check when in reality he is leaving things open for them to take control.

When eventually you do pull out of iraq there will be civil along religious lines war and the country will split in two with thousands killed on all sides and eventually what will happen. That's right they will sit down at a table and come to an agreement to end it all. . Fifty years from now people will look back and wonder what the heck we were thinking of.

The thing that really angers me is that the British got suckered as well. Tony Blair is an arsehole and it is to our shame we let him get away with it-but that's our problem. GW is yours-If you do go to war against Iran-and GW doesn't have long to start that one are you going to fall for it all again or will you remember that many died so that people like you have the right to question what your government does and do in fact have the power. Maybe it's going to take seeing anti-war demonstrators being gunned down on your street for you to realise what you can lose.

http://foxattacks.com/iran

[koan]

I believe Noam Chomsky said "It is the duty of the intellectual to question authority." I give everyone the credit of being intellectual enough to accomplish that.

[koan]

"democratic and friendly Iran."

from one of the articles mentioned on gmc's link.
This stood out. No country is safe unless it is democratic AND friendly. Iran is democratic but that is already being used in an excuse to attack because the subjective quality of "friendly" isn't being met as well.

Sending soldiers over and dropping bombs on them will make them friendlier?