Slavery can be a Good Thing

[wildhorses]

Originally Posted by QUINNSCOMMENTARY

Of course, slavery is never a good thing, it is a horrible thing and yet the long term results may not be as dire as we envision.

Al Roker a popular TV personality in the US is tracing his roots and found that his ancestors were brought to the Caribbean as slaves eventually received their own land and some of the family moved to the US. His story traced the horrific conditions imposed on his ancestors. Yet, as horrible as all that was (and is in certain parts of the world today), in the end is Al Roker and his family better off than if his ancestors were never brought to the Americas as slaves? Mr. Roker is educated, wealthy and a celebrity who has the ability to provide well for his family.

Are the millions of Americans who rightly lament over the plight of their ancestors better off than they would be if slavery had not existed?

Of course, that question can never be answered, but given the past and current state of Africa over the last 150 years it would seem that the price paid by African slaves provided rich rewards for many of their decedents. Even if the answer is yes, no doubt most people would rather have the ability to erase the past. But the question does pose an interesting possibility.

I am not at all suprised that you started such an abhorrent thread as this.

[fuzzy butt]

I see the word Pro's and con's and it makes me shiver. In this day and age in western culture we can't possibly answer the question - unless we look at history before the year 2000. In the early nineteen hundreds we had slavery ..........In BCE we had slavery it was a basic welfare system .

Not called slavery, but in effect slavery. We also have serfdom around the world and people under contract......................In affect slavery.

So instead of looking at one small group think of all the other groups around the world and you should be able answer the question.

But if we must look at one small group ie the slaves of America we also have to think of where they came from and why it was acceptable to trade slaves . Basically Africa was a huge believer of slavery amongst it's own people and they still are today, lots sell their children into households and businesses. It's also rampant in parts of Asia.

[wildhorses]

It is ridiculous to say that the decendents of African slaves are better off than if their ancestors were not brought here as slaves. Africans could have immigrated here like everyone else on the planet.

Quinn suggests that those decendents would all be in Africa had their ancestors not been forced into slavery like animals. So it was a favor to the decendents of slaves to enslave their ancestors? OMG. This is sick.

In fact there are many Africans who have immigrated to USA....their ancestors were never slaves. Slavery was not a necessary component. Nothing good came out of slavery. Nothing.

This ideology comes out of white guilt about slavery. But whites today should not feel guilty about black slavery in this country. They were not even alive when it happened.

For modern day whites to be blamed for this is an insidious form of racism. Many blame present day whites for something done by someone else in another century.....and the only connection is the color of skin. That is racism against white people.

In fact the percentage of slave owners among whites at the time was very small. So, for the most part, not even white people who were living at the time were guilty. But all whites are blamed....only because of the color of their skin. Racism.

Think about it.

[oscar]

I am currently living in a city of Britain .. Bristol that has a slavery history.

Bristol now hangs it's head in shame. they have recently officially apologised for the misery they brought to the people.

When is America going to have the balls to do the same Quinn?
It is not against the grain to be humble.
If our country can recognise what they did in the "Triangle", why can't you?

You seem to forget that although the descendants of slaves in America may have your capitalistic life-style that they should be oh so bloody grateful to you for.. for bringing them to you "New World" in the first place, many of the slaves taken did not live.
They were raped and murdered if they were not fit enough to serve your masters.

It is no different to Britain suddenly getting all smarmy and saying that if we didn't deport our criminals to Australia, then their descendants would be in the gutter. It's nonsence.

[QUINNSCOMMENTARY]

Originally Posted by wildhorses

It is ridiculous to say that the decendents of African slaves are better off than if their ancestors were not brought here as slaves. Africans could have immigrated here like everyone else on the planet.

Quinn suggests that those descendants would all be in Africa had their ancestors not been forced into slavery like animals. So it was a favor to the descendants of slaves to enslave their ancestors? OMG. This is sick.

In fact there are many Africans who have immigrated to USA....their ancestors were never slaves. Slavery was not a necessary component. Nothing good came out of slavery. Nothing.

This ideology comes out of white guilt about slavery. But whites today should not feel guilty about black slavery in this country. They were not even alive when it happened.

For modern day whites to be blamed for this is an insidious form of racism. Many blame present day whites for something done by someone else in another century.....and the only connection is the color of skin. That is racism against white people.

In fact the percentage of slave owners among whites at the time was very small. So, for the most part, not even white people who were living at the time were guilty. But all whites are blamed....only because of the color of their skin. Racism.

Think about it.

You really should think before you write. Nobody said slavery was a necessary component, I didn't say slavery did anyone a favor, but I did say given the chance most people would probably like to erase slavery regardless of the consequences.

I merely said that an unintended consequence of slavery was that many black Americans were better off (than if their ancestors never left Africa) as a result of their ancestors suffering the horror and indignity of slavery and that is a true statement. Even today in Africa many countries are suffering the consequences of colonialism and their own corrupt governments and dictators, drought, starvation and genocide and although I have never seen it first hand, what I have seen leads me to the conclusion that even poor black Americans are better off that many average Africans.

It would therefore seem that the hand of fate placed many African Americans in a better place, just as it did for those of us whose ancestors voluntarily emigrated to the US, assuming of course that in my case you can consider the starvation of the Irish voluntary.

[oscar]

Originally Posted by QUINNSCOMMENTARY

what I have seen leads me to the conclusion that even poor black Americans are better off that many average Africans.

.

And that makes everything o.k.??

It'd be interesting to know what these African countrie's, with their corrupt leaders etc would be doing right now should their land not be pilaged by our fore-fathers. maybe, their economy's would be better, if we had left them in peace to decide how their own country should be run.

I understand your analogy of the Irish famine, my family are Irish.

[QUINNSCOMMENTARY]

Originally Posted by oscar

I am currently living in a city of Britain .. Bristol that has a slavery history.

Bristol now hangs it's head in shame. they have recently officially apologised for the misery they brought to the people.

When is America going to have the balls to do the same Quinn?
It is not against the grain to be humble.
If our country can recognise what they did in the "Triangle", why can't you?

You seem to forget that although the descendants of slaves in America may have your capitalistic life-style that they should be oh so bloody grateful to you for.. for bringing them to you "New World" in the first place, many of the slaves taken did not live.
They were raped and murdered if they were not fit enough to serve your masters.

It is no different to Britain suddenly getting all smarmy and saying that if we didn't deport our criminals to Australia, then their descendants would be in the gutter. It's nonsence.

Did I say anything about anyone being grateful for slavery or anything close to that? Did you actually read what I wrote?

The Portuguese started the slave trade and the English took it over and during the period when slaves were first brought to the Americas the English were in charge as well, I suspect you had nothing to do with either. The vast majority of Americans had nothing to do with slavery, the people who should apologize are long gone.

There is a long list of things countries and people should apologize for it you want to go there, the Americans to the native Americans, the English to the Irish, the Turks to the Armenians, the Germans to half the world, the Japanese to the Chinese, some Africans to other Africans and on and on and on.

I might abhor and regret what my ancestors did, but I can't apologize for something I had nothing to do with. Actually the closest I have come to slavery was my great, great grandfather who came to the US in 1862 from Germany after fighting in the Crimean War, promptly joined the Union Army and fought until 1865.

[K.Snyder]

Originally Posted by oscar

When is America going to have the balls to do the same Quinn?
It is not against the grain to be humble.
If our country can recognise what they did in the "Triangle", why can't you?

Governments change.

For a government to apologize gives credence to their being no different...I don't believe anyone is going to argue against such a statement considering slavery has existed since the beginning of written history yet America had set the stage to abolish slavery less than 100 years after declaring and winning their Independence...By your argument one can just as easily say that African Americans should thank the American government...

The Civil Rights or lack thereof however I see being a very unethical fragment of American history but I still do not see an apology being significant...

An apology on behalf of those whom happened to have aided and embedded such events however I do see as being relevant but then again if people did that they'd have to apologize on behalf of all other human beings who have wronged anyone throughout history...

Quite frankly the American government has apologized by eliminating slavery in the United States...


*Edited* Who is the American government by the way?...You are aware that an African American is running for President in the American government and not only that is leading in the polls with 17 days left until the election not to mention countless other African Americans whom hold an office in the American government aren't you?...

[wildhorses]

Originally Posted by QUINNSCOMMENTARY

You really should think before you write. Nobody said slavery was a necessary component, I didn't say slavery did anyone a favor, but I did say given the chance most people would probably like to erase slavery regardless of the consequences.

I merely said that an unintended consequence of slavery was that many black Americans were better off (than if their ancestors never left Africa) as a result of their ancestors suffering the horror and indignity of slavery and that is a true statement. Even today in Africa many countries are suffering the consequences of colonialism and their own corrupt governments and dictators, drought, starvation and genocide and although I have never seen it first hand, what I have seen leads me to the conclusion that even poor black Americans are better off that many average Africans.

It would therefore seem that the hand of fate placed many African Americans in a better place, just as it did for those of us whose ancestors voluntarily emigrated to the US, assuming of course that in my case you can consider the starvation of the Irish voluntary.

I thought about my post carefully...believe me.

The point is that they are human beings....not pegs on a board. They could have come here of their own free will. You are assuming that their decendents would have been born in Africa. But many Africans have gone to live in other countries and they might have done likewise.

Stop trying to alleviate your guilt. You are not guilty for slavery as you were not born at the time. Face up to what happened and stop trying to tweak it into something that is more pallatable to you.

It makes my skin crawl that you or anyone else would think that forcing people into slavery benefits their next generation. Especially when the original victims could have accomplished the same destination on their own and under much better circumstances.

[QUINNSCOMMENTARY]

Originally Posted by wildhorses

I thought about my post carefully...believe me.

The point is that they are human beings....not pegs on a board. They could have come here of their own free will. You are assuming that their decendents would have been born in Africa. But many Africans have gone to live in other countries and they might have done likewise.

Stop trying to alleviate your guilt. You are not guilty for slavery as you were not born at the time. Face up to what happened and stop trying to tweak it into something that is more pallatable to you.

It makes my skin crawl that you or anyone else would think that forcing people into slavery benefits their next generation. Especially when the original victims could have accomplished the same destination on their own and under much better circumstances.

It is difficult to have a debate with someone who is so tainted in their view they cannot view anything objectively. Your view is that someone said forcing people into slavery benefits their next generation as if there is a suggestion that is a justification for slavery. Certainly that is not the case and no suggestion of that kind was made. What I was trying to note is the unintended consequence of slavery. I seriously doubt that the many successful black Americans would find themselves in the same situation today as they do if there were no such thing as slavery, for that to occur millions of Africans would have had to immigrate to the US beginning at least in the mid 19th century. Do you truly believe that was a real possibility?