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Thread: The Common People

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    Re: The Common People

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    A brief question for the panel, if I may.

    I need a term for the smallest social group which can be taxed. The Revenue and the Benefits-people-as-was (who might now be called the Universal Creditors) know the following words: single person, couple, child(0::n). I'm reluctant to call a combination of these a Taxable Unit because it sounds a bit formal. Can I get away with Household, or is that something different?

    I fear Household may include Several Taxable Units if it includes grown children, cohabitees or separately-taxed marrieds but, if we discount Household, what can I use?
    Simplify the tax system and use "Individual"?

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    Re: The Common People

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    Simplify the tax system and use "Individual"?
    I need to be able to tax children from birth. So yes, that would do it.

    I've managed to retask the tax system with no change of law in a mere 200 words, as best I can tell, by removing the income floor from Working Tax Credits so it applies to zero-earners. I think that provides negative tax payments if I feed it with rejigged Universal Credits. Then I could, if needed, bolster any low initial hourly minimum wage with a negative initial tax rate to make even minimal employment more of an enticement.

    Rather than bands I'd prefer a hyperbolic formula but everyone would scream "too complicated!" which it wouldn't be, with say a -75% low asymptote where it cuts zero income flattening to a +50% asymptote for all income over, say, 4 times the median wage.
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    Re: The Common People

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    I need to be able to tax children from birth. So yes, that would do it.

    I've managed to retask the tax system with no change of law in a mere 200 words, as best I can tell, by removing the income floor from Working Tax Credits so it applies to zero-earners. I think that provides negative tax payments if I feed it with rejigged Universal Credits. Then I could, if needed, bolster any low initial hourly minimum wage with a negative initial tax rate to make minimal employment more of an enticement.

    Rather than bands I'd prefer a hyperbolic formula but everyone would scream "too complicated!" which it wouldn't be, with say a -75% low asymptote where it cuts zero income flattening to a +50% asymptote for all income over, say, 4 times the median wage.
    You can't do that if you move the unit of taxation from the household to the individual or you'd be paying the indolent wife and children of a fat cat boss for not working!

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    Re: The Common People

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    You can't do that if you move the unit of taxation from the household to the individual or you'd be paying the indolent wife and children of a fat cat boss for not working!
    And, indeed, I'll be paying universal credits, which currently aren't in the least bit universal, to the fat cat boss himself as well. And he'll have a choice, like everyone else, of whether to continue as a wage slave. I have high hopes that working conditions will improve startlingly as a result.
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    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
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    Re: The Common People

    I guess the 'simplest' way would be to pay everything they have to the Government, and then for the Government to pay everyone back an equal amount of 'Pocket Money'. That way, no calculations. No floors or ceilings. No percentages (apart from 100%). Perfect for those who have nothing. Not so good for the higher earners.

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    Re: The Common People

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    I guess the 'simplest' way would be to pay everything they have to the Government, and then for the Government to pay everyone back an equal amount of 'Pocket Money'. That way, no calculations. No floors or ceilings. No percentages (apart from 100%). Perfect for those who have nothing. Not so good for the higher earners.
    I'm pleased to say I have never advocated such a scheme other than as a way to run a commune. It's no way to run a country. My underlying concern regarding taxation is to define a minimum acceptable living standard which takes into account personal circumstance. If those able to earn more want to earn more to an unlimited extent then that's fine by me.

    The reason the wealthy get taxed, to whatever extent they get taxed, is that they're enabled to accumulate wealth as a result of the society in which they live, and taxation supports that enabling society. I don't insist on taxing the income of the wealthy but I do see good reasons to do it.
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    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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    Re: The Common People

    I believe the fairest way is probably the oldest one on record - the tithe. Everyone, regardless of income, pays an equal percentage (in the case of the tithe, 10%) as taxes. What that percentage is set at is immaterial, so long as it is the same for everyone, but not changed so that those on higher incomes pay a lower percentage, etc. I have no objection to paying my way. What I DO object to is the Right Wing Government forever coming up with new dodges so as to make sure their wealthy Right Wing buddies get wealthier still by not having to pay so much tax as the rest of us.

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    Re: The Common People

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    So you'd completely abolish the local council tax? And the statutory obligation payments which are effectively taxes in that they're not contractual, they're compulsory whether you use the service or not, like the water and sewage bill?

    I don't think any English government ever saw a tithe payment, it was all church income. And the odd thing is that church and monastic lands paid no tithe, and by the time of the dissolution of the monasteries that was a third of England. The king paid no tithe either, and he owned a fair proportion of the remainder. When Henry VIII sold all the confiscated monastery lands he included the monastic right not to pay tithes, so from then until tithes were abolished nobody who owned ex-monastic land paid tithes either.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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