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Thread: Things you won't hear about in the daily mail

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    Things you won't hear about in the daily mail

    Theresa May stokes fears NHS 'for sale' in post-Brexit US trade deal after refusing to rule it out of Trump talks
    Theresa May stokes fears NHS 'for sale' in post-Brexit US trade deal after refusing to rule it out of Trump talks | The Independent

    Is there anyone out there in brexit land who believes the NHS will not be privatised under the tories? Have you noticed the increased number of adverts for private medical care, phone consultations with private doctors. I can't belive what is happening to this country. Roll on indyref 2.

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    Re: Things you won't hear about in the daily mail

    A Trump - May alliance, post-Brexit, will make y'all long for the days of Reagan - Thatcher.
    We might even allow you to apply for Statehood.
    It may not be so much that I've conceded your point as that you just can't hear me rolling my eyes.

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    Re: Things you won't hear about in the daily mail

    Why must everything be blamed on Brexit? The Tories have been trying to privatise the NHS ever since its initial conception, when they tried to oppose it from the start. Was that because of Brexit?

    Whether the NHS was privatised or not has never been anything to do with the EU & the steady scourge of privatisation was happening long before the Referendum. Nothing has really changed to affect the steady downward slope of Tory rule. Brexit is an additional event, not a cause of anything. Of course, Tories will take the credit for everything that goes right, despite their best efforts otherwise, but they will blame everything that goes wrong because of their incompetence on Brexit, and there will plenty of Remainers who will all too willing to believe them.

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    Re: Things you won't hear about in the daily mail

    We also have a health secretary that wrote a pamphlet on how to privatise the NHS you don't hear that mentioned very often either. What is different now imo is a rampant tory government that will sell the privatisation as necessary to sort put the failings of the NHS and to secure a trade deal with the usa and with no real opposition to stop them and a dominantly right wing press with no desire to report things as they really are.

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    Re: Things you won't hear about in the daily mail

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    We also have a health secretary that wrote a pamphlet on how to privatise the NHS you don't hear that mentioned very often either. What is different now imo is a rampant tory government that will sell the privatisation as necessary to sort put the failings of the NHS and to secure a trade deal with the usa and with no real opposition to stop them and a dominantly right wing press with no desire to report things as they really are.
    Except it's not the NHS that has failed, but the Government that is deliberately doing its utmost to fail it.

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    Re: Things you won't hear about in the daily mail

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    Except it's not the NHS that has failed, but the Government that is deliberately doing its utmost to fail it.
    I'm not saying that it has in fact I consider it tremendous, but it's increasingly being portrayed as failing be it not meeting targets for being seen at A & E, doctors not seeing patients at the weekend etc etc. You don't see headlines like NHS save ~~~~ lives this week do you? Have you noticed the increased number of adverts for seeing on line doctors privately, getting your repeat prescriptions through a private online service. A & E targets are ridiculous the only thing that should matter is that people who are acrtually an emergency should be seen first someone with a cut finger comes way behind someone who has collapsed or been in an accident, if they have to wait eight hours to get something that is not an emergency tended to I have little sympathy. I have been in A & E and seen someone bring their kid in with a skinned knee that a bit of antiseptic and a plaster dealt with, hardly warranting a trip to A & E. 2 o'clock one morning I was in A& E with my wife who had been taken there by ambulance the doctor treating her had to contend with someone that had been waiting for two hours complaining about and why was my wife being seen before her and she was going to write to the papers about how bad the service was. One of the rare occasions when I have been tempted to hit someone.

    I'd wholeheartedly agree with you I think they are clearing the way to privatise it and it seems we can't stop it.

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    Re: Things you won't hear about in the daily mail

    Brexit is not the reason; brexit is the excuse.

    Without brexit they'd find another reason, but brexit gives them perfect cover. Also, unless the incompetent lying ****wits running this can get their act together the economic and social devastation will mean they can't afford it and the NHS collapses.
    Brexit is cover for a far right takeover of the country. Saw one poster yesterday saying they needed a final solution to the Remoaner problem and it's not the first of its type. In the heady days just after the brexit vote there were many fascists and racists online posting on the BBC because they thought the vote made racism legal. Or something. Several offered to be guards at the camps for Remainers. Almost unbelievable but true! NO, they weren't joking.

    Brexiters need to understand that they voted with all the racists in the country who successfully completed a voting form, since no racist will vote to stay in a multiracial, multicultural organisation like the EU, given a choice, because they could never make racism legal. They also voted with the fascists like the gang Trump retweeted, and with the far left who also want to leave the EU because they could not play with the economy the way they want under EU financial constraints.

    And let's not forget brexit's biggest foreign supporters: Trump and Putin. Brexiters voted the way Trump and Putin wanted them to, the way Murdoch wanted them to, the way the fascists and racists wanted them to, the way the very rich elite wantred them to. They voted to remove EU red tape and have given ministers - not Parliament, Ministers - the power to change those laws as the far right want. So expect reduced workers rights, holidays, less Health and Safety so more workplace deaths and injuries.
    For these reasons I consider brexit a far right plot to turn us into a low tax, low regulation economy. I seriously doubt the capability of the ****wits in charge to negotiate anything but hard brexit because it is too difficult for them: Davis has looked totally out of his depth from the start, Johnson is incapable of saying anything of substance it seems - his Road to Brexit speech had NO indication of what brexit would mean or how it would be achieved, all he said was, "It will be great, trust me." This from the **** who convinced many brexiters he was going to spend the 350mill we send to the EU on the NHS instead. (Since then he's offered 10 mill I think. In total, not per week. Something like that anyway) and that Turkey was about to join the EU. A proven liar in my opinion.

    Fox apparently has written in the SUN that Britain is booming post the brexit vote and says, "In 2017, we saw the highest level of Foreign Direct Investment projects into the UK in our history - a vote of confidence in the future from real investors." The New European points out that those figures were from 2016, and says that the figures for 2017 show a 90% drop. I can't at present find anything on that myself, but no doubt it will be proved right or wrong in due course. Fox, Davis, Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg...well, I'm sure they'd get on really well with Trump.

    One of the many pathetic things about brexiters is that they simultaneously claim brexit is a huge success and blame Remain voters for its failure because of a lack of support from those of us who think it a really bad idea. And it hasn't even happened yet.

    You do get a few moments of black humour though: I did like the brexit post on the BBC HYS yesterday that claimed Remainers were arrogant for winning the arguments on brexit. Strange but true.
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    Re: Things you won't hear about in the daily mail

    Actually I totally agree with you.

    Jeremy Hunt co-authored book calling for NHS to be replaced with private insurance | The Independent

    https://whatwouldvirchowdo.files.wor...odel_party.pdf

    We have people in power idioogically oppposed tio the concept of a welfare state but they can't say that becauser they would not get elected so instead it's a subtle drip feed of how the nhs is failing is too expenseive not value for money etc etc.

    Our electoral system badly needs reform nick clegg had a real chance to make a difference and blew it no who would trust the libdems nowadays? Labour aren't much better.

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    Re: Things you won't hear about in the daily mail

    I was about 10 when the old Lib/Lab pact happened and the Coalition was the first since then, I think. Only one I can recall anyway. The Libs then the Lib Dems had been a small minority party and had always been open to the idea of coalitions as part of their support for a less adversarial, more co-operative parliament and (I'm guessing) because it was likely to be the only way we'd get any Lib Dem policies enacted in any of our lifetimes... Most of us supported the idea of coalition in principle. The practice buggered us though. The biggest mistake made imo was tuition fees. That should have been a red line issue and it wasn't and that is what has destroyed trust. Understandably.

    The next year is going to be interesting to say the least.

    Neither main Party Leader can count on party loyalty over brexit. Chukka Umunna and Anna Soubry are not alone, they speak for factions in their parties and I think they must be meaningful groupings or would these MPs stick their necks out like this? Appearing on political chat shows together saying they will act if necessary?

    ...incidentally, saw Carwyn Jones in front of a Select Committee yesterday discussing the implications of brexit on devolution. Impressive. Not seen him in action before and he came across as a thoughtful, intelligent man who was a master of his brief. The Welsh have a good one there. (...cue some horrible revelation...)

    Inside Parliament I think we are going to see some major BOOM!s in the next year. I could be wrong and the whole thing gets throttled - the Government is trying to make sure there is no option to ditch the whole stupid project but I don't think it can while - if - Parliament has the power and the will to overturn a government if it feels it in the vital interest of the State. That doesn't mean MPs will do anything but they could and depending what happens because there are other major issues like Putin, Trump, China, Fundamentalism all still out there, plus Climate Change...the situation is explosive, to say the least.

    Oh, and on old Clegg he sacrificed everything to get that referendum on PR. Oops*. But PR was the significant change to the system the Lib Dems wanted and he fell for the bait. We haven't had a really good leader since Paddy and well, it matters.

    * I wouldn't have made that mistake, just lots of other ones...needed to be completely settled on exactly what PR before the referendum ever happened. Not an issue for the first time in power imo, certainly not to hang everything on. Sigh. Would have been worth it if he'd won, though. If the odds were against the potential gains were enormous. I'm just not a gambler by nature. If I'm doing something like that I want to stack the odds in my favour (I can't fix the race, but I can perhaps choose the racecourse and maybe pick the runners... )
    Last edited by Clodhopper; 02-18-2018 at 06:16 AM. Reason: because I can't help tweaking.
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    Re: Things you won't hear about in the daily mail

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    I remember the liblab pact, the libdems are only too willing to ditch any princip[les to get a seat at the table. In scotland the libdems went in to coalition with labour and funnily enough tuition fees was sold down the river, they started losing support after that. the last libdem mp was the centre of a smear campaign against nicola sturgeon

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ng-it-was-true

    They only have any seats in the scottish parliament due to our PR elections. OR was intended to prevent any one party getting an overall majority. the snp achievement is quite remarkable. Both the welsh and scottish goivernments have been shut out of the brexit talks,hopefully that will help those who believed the "vow" not to be so gullible in future.

    The new european have been pointing out they never feature in any of the press review programmes

    http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-...ight-1-5395686

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