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Thread: The problem with the English

  1. #11
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    Re: The problem with the English

    Once again the Remainer's argument comes down to accusing anyone who thinks differently to them as being a Racist. It is the same sort of logic that accuses Jeremy Corbyn of being an Anti-Semite because he condemns the actions of Israel & anyone that supports them. Just because the Israelis are Jewish, we are expected to belief that opposition to Israel is opposition against Jews. Does that also make him Anti-Islam for being opposed to the Human Rights (or lack of) record of the Saudis? Of course not. It is the Propogandist's art to find a negative point, then to turn it around & spin it in order to do some mud slinging & make sure as many people as possible get covered, ergo Because some Brexiteers are Racist, therefore ALL Brexiteers are Racist.

    As for refering to Home Office figures for evidence... Oh, of course, it's April 1st, isn't it? Or are you REALLY that gullible. Home Office figures show that more money is being put into Police, Schools, Public Services & NHS, yet everyday observations show the total opposite to be true.

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    Re: The problem with the English

    You voted brexit and race hate crime jumped. You haven't commented on that. You can't face responsibility for even that minor part of what you have done. Get it into your head that what you voted for was a movement led by far right people both inside and even more outside Parliament. You are going to get a far right brexit whether you voted for it or not, assuming our MPs are too gutless to do anything about it.

    Pray to whatever God you like that brexit is a huge success, against all reasonable opinion because if it is anything like as horrible as I expect, anywhere NEAR as devastating then anyone who voted brexit will need to become invisible to avoid the crap that will head in their direction.

    Crawl back up Davis' bum where you are clearly comfortable because I haven't heard any criticism from you about anything brexit related, or the disgusting lies they tell.

    Gove said there was no question of leaving the single market when we left the EU. LIAR

    Johnson said we could have our cake and eat it. LIAR

    It's not a lie to say that Johnson - one of the main leaders of brexit - has said he is favour of privatising the NHS on the grounds people would value it more if they had to pay for it - Safe in his hands, but only for those who can pay.

    I have come to despise brexiters and the more I interact with them, the more I despise their stupidity. This one doesn't even understand Office of National Statistics figures. Thinks they are government propaganda rather than the best figures that can be got and the ones government uses as a basis on which to set policy. Not propaganda, as close to the truth as the people in the ONS can get. Buuut if they contradicts this brexiter's beliefs then they must be lies...logic, innit.

    And you know what? If brexit is the disaster I and many many others expect I don't think we'll find all the brexiters blaming themselves for the mess we are in. They'll blame Remainers and probably the BBC and the Governor of the Bank of England too, since they already have been blamed for the failure of brexit by a good number of brexiters.

    Not a tory, oh no, but votes for far right tory projects thinking they are left wing...I suppose we shouldn't be surprised. But it seems he will be by the far right tory brexit he supports so much.

    God if there was something positive about brexit - anything of substance at all to look forward to about it I wouldn't be so angry. But there is nothing positive to look forward to. No brexiter has ever managed to come up with a positive reason for doing this. The very best they can do is to say everything will be better when we leave the EU. They claim we'll get lots of good trade deals easily, that negotiations with the EU will be the easiest ever and that we'll all feel much better when we have nothing to do with the EU except a really great trade deal. They've swallowed all the far right lies and believe them.

    Brexit isn't a racist movement - although there was a spike in race hate crime as brexiters went out and celebrated their referendum result and a fascist brexiter murdered Jo Cox. Somehow that doesn't count. Presumably that's police propaganda figures.No sign of racism in brexit there. As long as you ignore what actually happened:

    There was a sharp increase in the number of racially or religiously aggravated offences recorded by the police following the EU Referendum. The number of racially or religiously aggravated offences recorded by the police in July 2016 was 41% higher than in July 2015.
    taken from:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...6-hosb1116.pdf

    I assume based on previous form that you will claim these figures are false because they are official government figures, so the brexit government is producing propaganda against itself...

    God I hate loathe and despise brexit and everything about it: the people involved, the ideas, the cowardice, the lack of understanding, the race hate and the way the brexiters are making the far right sooo happy as they ram their agenda through.
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    Re: The problem with the English

    Your entire argument still appears to be based on accusing everyone who voted to Leave as being a Far Right Racist. Well, sunshine. That means that the UK must be a Far Right Racist country, seeing as 52% of its electorate voted that way - and even the Far Right Tories done't come close to that level of support in their own 'safe' seats.

    I presume you are also one of those who accuse Jeremy of being Anti-Semitic because he opposes the Israeli regime of murder & terrorism.

    You accuse someone of being Racist when they deny being so. Your valisation for such accusation being the fact that they deny it. That is the mindset of a dyed in the wool Remainer.

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    Re: The problem with the English

    Please comment on the increase in race hate crime that was a result of the brexit vote. You've ducked it and any other inconvenient questions continuously.

    Do you approve of the leadership of the brexit movement? They are all far right tories. Why the hell did you vote for them, then, if you claim to be left wing? Did you really think voting for a movement fronted by Farage, Johnson, Davis, Fox, Banks, Murdoch and Dacre was going to be anything other than far right given ALL the above are far right?

    I'm not really bothered whether I've called you a racist or not: I see little difference between a racist and a supporter of a racist movement. And you ARE a brexiter. So you openly support a movement whose members murder its opponents and is supported by all the racists in the country because racists won't vote for a multiracial multicultural organisation like the EU by definition (at least, not those intelligent enough to successfully complete the ballot form). And you voted with them. That makes you a racist or a supporter of racism by your actions. You may not like it but that's what you voted for, that's what you are. Anyone who voted brexit took a big step towards becoming a racist, if they weren't there already, even if they didn't know it.

    You are like a Hitler voter claiming they weren't Nazi.

    You also voted to withdraw from our EU trade deal and negotiate a worse one, you rely on Fox to make us great free trade deals with Trump, China, India who KNOW we are desperate and will negotiate to get the best deal for THEM they can. And we KNOW beyond doubt that Trump dislikes free trade, wanted the UK out of the EU, and is a liar, an abuser of people, women in particular, and a completely corrupt lump of ****. China is a dictatorship and in India you get nowhere without bribes (I like India, have visited several times, but no country is perfect...) You must think the EU is much like them. You are wrong. It is nothing like them.

    WHY DID YOU VOTE FOR BREXIT? Did you think you would be richer? Did you think it would make you more free? I've heard brexiters saying they voted brexit to save the NHS maybe you aren't that deluded but you must have thought there was something good about brexit or you wouldn't have voted for it. What was it about brexit that seemed so good to you even when it is CLEARLY a far right movement because ALL the people in charge of it are tories, 90% of them far right like Johnson, Fox, Davis - the chief ****heads running brexit.

    And of course the racism is only part of it. You also voted to make the country poorer, to reduce our freedoms, to make our Foreign Policy less effective, to increase our food prices (have you noticed you now only get 5 apples in a pack for the same price as you used to get 6? Nothing to do with the decline in the £ post the referendum, of course) and to probably break up the NHS and indeed the UK itself: There's a good chance Scotland will leave the UK and I wouldn't be surprised if NI did as well, given they have the DUP running the show. That's what you ACTUALLY voted for.

    edit: In fairness when I think about it it is now 20 years since I was last in India. Things may be different though I wouldn't bet on it myself.
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    Re: The problem with the English

    I have not evaded any issues whatsoever. Yes, there are those who are Racist who are also Brexiters. There are also Racists who are also Remainers. However, there are also those who are NOT Racist who are also pro Brexit. Although Jeremy Corbyn followed the Party Policy on compaigning for Remain, his EU Sceptic views are well known. Are you now accusing him of being being a Far Right Racist?

    As for prices going up - have you noticed that prices have been going up & relative wages have been going down since the Tories got into Government? Have you also noticed that until this time next year we are still IN the EU. As far as Trade goes, nothing have changed yet, which shows that these negative changes have nothing to do with the EU, be it in or out.

    As for Crime being on the increase, have you noticed that this directly correlates with the Tories slashing Police Budgets? Just what does that have to do with Brexit? As for Racially motivated crimes - the vast majority of these are Anti-Islamic. Just how many Islamic EU Member State countries are there at the moment?

    The Public have seen the steady downward path of the EU & have had enough of it. THAT is the primary trigger for the change. Of course the Far Right are going to be the most likely to be pro Brexit. Nobody is denying that, but I hope that Far Right remains a very small minority. Both Tories & Labour officially supported Remain, yet more than half voted against it. That means that a sizeable number of people from BOTH sides voted against their own Party Policies.

    Also, be honest, how many people do you know who voted either way were swayed by any of the campaigning? Or had they already made up their minds before the campaigning even started in earnest?
    The campaign, on both sides was a shambles. It was based on Scaremongering & Speculation. Plus, I agree, there was a lot of Racism included in it - which I totally disassociate myself with. The fact is, though, that I find your accusations of my being Racist simply because I excercised my Democratic Right to vote to Leave highly offensive & a display of your ignorance. Such accusations are beneath you.

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    Re: The problem with the English

    I AM SO FED UP WITH BREXIT AND ALL THE BICKERING, TUB THUMPING, FINGER-POINTING, FIST SHAKING, BLAMING, DIRT DIGGING. VISCIOUS ARGUMENTS, THREATS, AND HATE-FILLED AND VITRIOLIC RANTINGS.

    There was a referendum. The general public voted to leave Europe. There is no future in arguing and blaming and accusing.. Just flamin' well accept that result and get on with it, whether you voted to leave or stay, it is done now. If another referendum is forced, then that just proves how dictatorial this pathetic country has become. I used to be proud to be British, now, because of several different things, I am DISGUSTED. Are you not aware that the EU is sinking and breaking down ? Are you aware that most of the world is laughing at Britain for one reason or another ?
    I'm afraid we need strong leadership and I cannot see any chance of that in the future and the present certainly is not strong.
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  7. #17
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    Re: The problem with the English

    Quote Originally Posted by G#Gill View Post
    I AM SO FED UP WITH BREXIT AND ALL THE BICKERING, TUB THUMPING, FINGER-POINTING, FIST SHAKING, BLAMING, DIRT DIGGING. VISCIOUS ARGUMENTS, THREATS, AND HATE-FILLED AND VITRIOLIC RANTINGS.

    There was a referendum. The general public voted to leave Europe. There is no future in arguing and blaming and accusing.. Just flamin' well accept that result and get on with it, whether you voted to leave or stay, it is done now. If another referendum is forced, then that just proves how dictatorial this pathetic country has become. I used to be proud to be British, now, because of several different things, I am DISGUSTED. Are you not aware that the EU is sinking and breaking down ? Are you aware that most of the world is laughing at Britain for one reason or another ?
    I'm afraid we need strong leadership and I cannot see any chance of that in the future and the present certainly is not strong.
    If you want to accept the ndecline of this country to third world status go right ahead thendo so but don't criticise those who won't. The general public did not vote to leave the yes vote amount to less than a third of the total electorate. If there are three people in a car and the driver wants to go off a cliff do you really think the other two should just accept it? The referendum was forced on us because of internal party politics by a government that most people who botherd to vote actively voted against.

    Two of the countries in the united kingdom voted to reamian are you seriously suggesting they should remain in such a toxic union?

    In the 79n referendum I voted to remain I voted for independence in the last one and I will be voting for independence in the next. Englands is screwed and you have no oine to blame but yourselves.

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    Re: The problem with the English

    gmc, I originally voted to not join the European Common Market because I could see that the so-called 'Common Market' would not be just for trading purposes. I could see the writing on the wall that Europe would become political and would 'rule' all the member nations and bring about laws (I believe there were over 600 new laws brought in by Europe last year - where we, the British people, had no say in whether we want these new laws or not ! ). This is European democracy ? Originally we were supposed to be a member of the European Common Market, but all along the intention was to make the European Union into a Federation, and very little to do with just trading ! We are being stripped of our identity. If that is what you want then I wish you the best of luck.

    As regards the referendum to Stay/Leave the EU, we all know how lazy a lot of the voters are - just check the votes for the General Election !l So do not throw that rubbish in my face. As for criticising you or anybody else for wanting to 'remain' - I was not criticising I was just venting my anger at all the awful arguments, rows, and hate-filled vitriol concerning b****y Brexit. I've had a belly full. It's like an open sore that everybody seems to be scratching at. It's like a nightmare, everywhere you turn there is nastiness about Brexit - TV, radio, newspapers, flaming social internet sites. It is a pity that the vote turn out was not very big, but as I've already said, it is not much better for the General Election or Local Council Elections, so live with it. I am. No I'm not saying how I voted, but at least I accept that a legal vote was organised and carefully counted and the result was made public. After all, I would like to think that the British voting public and the British method of voting is legal, well supervised and above corruption. I would like to think that we can show our voting system to the world and demonstrate that it is fair and legal. I made my vote. I have to accept the result. That is it - get on with it. I'm just so p****d off with so much aggression, I thought we were more civilised than that.

    By the way, gmc, the so-called decline of this country was being developed many years before all the hoo ha of Brexit started. In fact, we became almost a third world country well before moves were started to get a referendum to leave or stay in Europe - that was probably one of the main reasons why a referendum was pushed for.
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    Re: The problem with the English

    The decline of this country from its peak of power in the 1830s or thereabouts was due to the rise of the US and Germany. This process was massively accelerated by the 2 WWs which impoverished then pretty much bankrupted us. We only finished paying for BOTH wars in the last few years. By the 1970s when we joined we were the basket case of Europe as appalling managers and bloody-minded Unions with a cut off nose to spite face attitude destroyed our industry. After 40 years in the EU we have just got to a situation where we are not borrowing more than we earn every day - Austerity did at least achieve its objective, albeit 2 years late. We have just got to a position where we have sorted some of the long term issues that were causing us problems - our day to day debt is no longer increasing. If we were going to stay in the EU we would be well set for a period of prosperity, with Gov't for the first time I can recall, having some GOOD money to spend (NOT from selling our family silver).

    However, 17 million people voted to brexit. The £ dropped, investment into business has fallen and we are not growing economically as strongly as we would if we hadn't brexited: Result: NO more money for Gov't, in fact less. Higher interest rates on our debts because our credit rating is dropping and all the pain we suffered with Austerity is for nothing. We'll see nothing, just we'll take on slightly less extra debt.

    Brexiters are responsible for brexit and its consequences. Led by right wing tories, backed by fascists and racists and a lot of dupes who seem to believe we'll be better off as a result of ditching the excellent trade deal we had with the EU - with the opt outs we had it can be argued it was actually a better deal than any other EU member of our economic size.

    Everything about brexit is a lie. The rest of the world is laughing at us for brexiting. The exceptions are people like Trump and Putin. Trump says he is going to offer us a great deal bigly. I'm sure you like and respect Trump. Putin also wanted us out. You've made them both very happy.

    (Incidentally you posted just after the referendum that you had voted brexit for some peace and quiet. Not going to happen, since many of us object to the rape and devastation of our country for the benefit of US corporations and the very rich. If you don't like the consequences of your vote you have only yourself and your leaders like Farage, Fox, Davis and Johnson to blame: they told the lies, you went along with them)

    Survey just out said 82% of those asked did not want to import chlorinated chicken and hormone injected beef. Fox says it's great. He's the one negotiating the trade deals...

    If brexit makes us all rich and doesn't turn us into Singapore in the North Sea in terms of rights then I'll shut up. Other than that I will NOT quietly accept what is happening as a result of a corrupt campaign interfered with by foreign powers, illegally funded and fronted by far right liars.
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    Re: The problem with the English

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    I have not evaded any issues whatsoever. Yes, there are those who are Racist who are also Brexiters. There are also Racists who are also Remainers. However, there are also those who are NOT Racist who are also pro Brexit. Although Jeremy Corbyn followed the Party Policy on compaigning for Remain, his EU Sceptic views are well known. Are you now accusing him of being being a Far Right Racist?

    As for prices going up - have you noticed that prices have been going up & relative wages have been going down since the Tories got into Government? Have you also noticed that until this time next year we are still IN the EU. As far as Trade goes, nothing have changed yet, which shows that these negative changes have nothing to do with the EU, be it in or out.

    As for Crime being on the increase, have you noticed that this directly correlates with the Tories slashing Police Budgets? Just what does that have to do with Brexit? As for Racially motivated crimes - the vast majority of these are Anti-Islamic. Just how many Islamic EU Member State countries are there at the moment?

    The Public have seen the steady downward path of the EU & have had enough of it. THAT is the primary trigger for the change. Of course the Far Right are going to be the most likely to be pro Brexit. Nobody is denying that, but I hope that Far Right remains a very small minority. Both Tories & Labour officially supported Remain, yet more than half voted against it. That means that a sizeable number of people from BOTH sides voted against their own Party Policies.

    Also, be honest, how many people do you know who voted either way were swayed by any of the campaigning? Or had they already made up their minds before the campaigning even started in earnest?
    The campaign, on both sides was a shambles. It was based on Scaremongering & Speculation. Plus, I agree, there was a lot of Racism included in it - which I totally disassociate myself with. The fact is, though, that I find your accusations of my being Racist simply because I excercised my Democratic Right to vote to Leave highly offensive & a display of your ignorance. Such accusations are beneath you.
    Please provide evidence of Remain racists. I've seen plenty for Brexit racists up to and including murder and the huge spike in race related crime after the brexit vote. Not seen any so far for Remain racists. Please provide examples. I think you'll struggle to find many racists who voted FOR a multiracial organisation.

    I know nothing about the Corbyn anti-Semitism thing and have no view on it other than it sounds like a genuine issue somewhere in the Labour Party which is being used to smear more widely by the tories. It is entirely possible to dislike Israel's policies without disliking Judaism. I do note that Corbyn was at least officially on the Remain side despite being widely believed to be a brexiter. The far left liked brexit because they'd struggle to impose their economic reforms in the EU given the idea of a level playing field and no government subsidies for industry except in extreme and special cases. I will grant that in the long term, say 50 years, I think a Corbyn far left brexit would be less horrible than a far right one though worse for the first 30 years or so. At least. Business doesn't like brexit even under the Bankers' Party (the tories). It will react very badly to a far left brexit.

    Prices have been going up for centuries. Usually by a percent or two per year (less than a percent annually in the first few centuries). 5 apples for the same price as 6 is around a 17% increase IN ONE HIT. That's brexit for you.

    I am talking about an increase in racially motivated crime. Do not try to confuse the issue by talking about crime in general. It is very likely crime in general is helped by a 20,000 cut in police numbers but since the areas with the greatest increases in crime rates do not, apparently, correlate with the areas with most police cuts there is likely more to it than just police numbers. Nor does it explain a 40% jump in racial and religiously motivated crime (the two are reported together in the report I saw) but brexit does explain it: Lots of brexit racists out there celebrating after the vote led to a big jump in the crime figures. 40% or so compared with the previous June, when we had not voted to brexit. That's a lot.

    "The public" has not seen a "steady downward path" from the EU. 17 mill brexiters did but the other 48 mill (minus ineligible voters and assuming our population is about 65 mill) didn't see enough to vote for brexit and 16 mill of those saw enough to vote against it. Saying "the public" wanted to leave the EU means we pretty much all did. That's a stinking brexiter lie. Barely 1/4 of the public wanted brexit enough to vote for it. That means the public taken as a whole, didn't want brexit enough to vote for it. Therefore brexit is against the expressed wishes of the public as a whole since only around 1/4 actually expressed a wish for it. 3/4s didn't want it enough to vote for it. And you have the gall, the dishonesty, to claim the public want brexit?

    If you don't want to be considered a racist I suggest you stop supporting a racist movement. Otherwise you are like someone saying, "Yes, I voted for Hitler, but I completely disassociate myself from the Concentration camps, the anti-Semitism and the racist murders. Nothing to do with me." Bull**** then, bull**** now.
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