President Obama makes room for lobbyists

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President Obama makes room for lobbyists

Post by Kindle »

The following is from Politics, Political News, Campaign 2008 - Politico.com

Apparently President Obama is finding the rules he himself laid down on his first working day a bit difficult to follow. Talk is always so much easier than the follow through.

I was trying to be hopeful, but these first days are not encouraging. :(





President Obama promised during his campaign that lobbyists "won't find a job in my White House."

So far, though, at least a dozen former lobbyists have found top jobs in his administration, according to an analysis done by Republican sources and corroborated by Politico.

Obama aides did not challenge the the list of lobbyists appointed to administration jobs, but they stressed that former lobbyists comprise a fraction of the more than 8,000 employees who will be hired by the new administration. And they pointed out that before Obama made his campaign-trail promise, he issued a more complete - and more nuanced - policy on former lobbyists.

Formalized in a recent presidential executive order, it forbids executive branch employees from working in an agency, or on a program, for which they have lobbied in the last two years.

Yet in the past few days, a number of exceptions have been granted, with the administration conceding at least two waivers and that a handful of other appointees will recuse themselves from dealing with matters on which they lobbied within the two-year window.

“It would be more honest if they admitted they made a mistake and came up with a narrower rule,” said Melanie Sloan, executive director of the government watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. “Obviously, they can’t live with the rule, which is why they keep waving the magic wand and making exceptions. They’re saying one thing and doing another. It’s why the public is skeptical about politicians.”

But another watchdog, Meredith McGehee of the Campaign Legal Center, praised Obama’s rules as “a good starting place” and urged patience in judging their efficacy.

“Any good set of ethics rules has the opportunity for waivers, but if the waivers become the rule, rather than the exception, then you have to look at whether the waivers are being sought too frequently or whether there’s a problem with the rule,” McGehee said. “I don’t think we’re at that point yet.”

At the White House, spokesman Tommy Vietor insisted the president has been consistent.

“During the campaign, then-Sen. Obama put forth the toughest ethics and lobbying reform policy in history,” Vietor said, “and now he’s acting on it to reduce the influence of lobbyists in Washington.”

Here are former lobbyists Obama has tapped for top jobs:

Eric Holder, attorney general nominee, was registered to lobby until 2004 on behalf of clients including Global Crossing, a bankrupt telecommunications firm.

Tom Vilsack, secretary of agriculture nominee, was registered to lobby as recently as last year on behalf of the National Education Association.

William Lynn, deputy defense secretary nominee, was registered to lobby as recently as last year for defense contractor Raytheon, where he was a top executive.

William Corr, deputy health and human services secretary nominee, was registered to lobby until last year for the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, a non-profit that pushes to limit tobacco use.

David Hayes, deputy interior secretary nominee, was registered to lobby until 2006 for clients, including the regional utility San Diego Gas & Electric.

Mark Patterson, chief of staff to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, was registered to lobby as recently as last year for financial giant Goldman Sachs.

Ron Klain, chief of staff to Vice President Joe Biden, was registered to lobby until 2005 for clients, including the Coalition for Asbestos Resolution, U.S. Airways, Airborne Express and drug-maker ImClone.

Mona Sutphen, deputy White House chief of staff, was registered to lobby for clients, including Angliss International in 2003.

Melody Barnes, domestic policy council director, lobbied in 2003 and 2004 for liberal advocacy groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union, the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, the American Constitution Society and the Center for Reproductive Rights.

Cecilia Munoz, White House director of intergovernmental affairs, was a lobbyist as recently as last year for the National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic advocacy group.

Patrick Gaspard, White House political affairs director, was a lobbyist for the Service Employees International Union.

Michael Strautmanis, chief of staff to the president’s assistant for intergovernmental relations, lobbied for the American Association of Justice from 2001 until 2005.




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Post by spot »

The article has the answer. Any good set of ethics rules has the opportunity for waivers. 12 in 8000 appointments? It sounds like he's cleaned the stable pretty thoroughly to me.
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Most of us take a man at his word.

He did not keep his word.

You are very precise about what words mean and have taken great issue in the past on various statements fellow FG's have made. I am surprised you think it is okay for him to say one thing and do another.




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Kindle;1121793 wrote: Most of us take a man at his word.

.


This is not the usual practice in Britain. We never believe a word they say. That way, we're not dissapointed when they let us down :)

That doesn't include Gordon Brown of course.
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What you have to understand is that Obama ran on a platform of CHANGE.

He kept saying he was going to do things differently. He would follow through on what he said he'd do.

He started out the first working day delivering his rules to his staff and cabinet and some even had to sign an agreement. Then he ups and hires lobbyists which was a really big item on his change agenda.

Everyone told him there were reasons why some things could not be changed all at once. He responded "Yes I can".

Well. It turns out he can't.




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Kindle;1121833 wrote: What you have to understand is that Obama ran on a platform of CHANGE.

He kept saying he was going to do things differently. He would follow through on what he said he'd do.

He started out the first working day delivering his rules to his staff and cabinet and some even had to sign an agreement. Then he ups and hires lobbyists which was a really big item on his change agenda.

Everyone told him there were reasons why some things could not be changed all at once. He responded "Yes I can".

Well. It turns out he can't.
Well, i agree with you although i'm sure Spot will give me a bitch-slapping for saying that i was worried about Obama all through the election campaign.

Several issue's concerned me about Obama during the election and the main one was the constant promises. Even our own politicians are slightly guarded in what they pledge in the run-up to an election for fear of being a laughing stock should they fail miserably later on.

Given the legacy he inherited from Bush, the collapse of the economy, foriegn policy, health care etc etc, I simply did not believe that he could tackle all of the issue's as he seemed to be claiming.

I actually got sick to death of the constant 'Change' slogans he was coming out with. I think the one that irritated the most was 'we are the one's we have been waiting for' huh :confused: There could possibly be a British General election in the next year and already we have the leader of the opposition coming out with equally inane drivel.

The question i kept asking during the election was 'What exactly is this change Obama'? and it seemed that no-one knew. I remember one particular newspaper article here in Britain at the time saying 'Obama says he has a dream but what exactly is it?'

I don't like being the voice of negativity but i have always believed Obama to be nothing but talk. If he succeeds, i believe it will be through the people he has around him, i.e. kennedy, Clinton and Biden who have the experience he lacks.
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Post by spot »

Kindle;1121793 wrote: Most of us take a man at his word.

He did not keep his word.

You are very precise about what words mean and have taken great issue in the past on various statements fellow FG's have made. I am surprised you think it is okay for him to say one thing and do another.


I don't think you quite realize the crisis your country's in. I'm watching the build-up of criticism from people for whom party counts more than national success, just as in the Clinton-bashing years when criticism was all that mattered regardless of substance.

I'll say it again. Twelve instances out of eight thousand, and you think the Obama administration's not working to the guidelines he promised? If he has exceptions they're exceptions, they're not the norm. I'm staggered that the Obama administration can get the figure as low as they have. They're not keeping key personnel out on a technicality but they're implementing their ban on lobbyists just the way they claimed they would.
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Jester;1121953 wrote: Yes.

It's called a lie. A Lie is a Lie, right, or is that not what you had in mind in the bush bashing years?


I wouldn't call it a lie or lie's in the plurel Jester. We also don't bash presidents just because they are American. Bush was bashed because he brought your country to it's knee's.

With Obama, i think it's a case of more 'optimism' rather than lie's. I don't think he took in the enormity of the problems he was inheriting from the Bush legacy and saw 'Change' as a way of denouncing Bush policy. The reality of the Bush legacy was not fully evident during the election when he gave his 'change' speeches and now he is faced with an enormous task to repair the country internally along with it's reputation worldwide.

We don't have to bash American presidents, we have plenty of elected idiots here too. Luckily, they are not in power.
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Jester;1121953 wrote: Yes.

It's called a lie. A Lie is a Lie, right, or is that not what you had in mind in the bush bashing years?


I hesitate to do this but I find what you've just written to be intensely anti-American.

The lies of George Bush's administration were the sort which qualified as tell it big enough and it'll be believed. Like WMD or the Iraqis tying up with bin Laden and the risk to Homeland USA.

Those are lies. Exceptions in appointments aren't lies, they're an avoidance of technicality in 0.16% of the cases considered. Do you actually understand magnitude? 0.16% is one hour's walk compared to walking from New York to San Francisco.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
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[QUOTE=spot;1121883]I don't think you quite realize the crisis your country's in. QUOTE]

Yes I do realize the crisis we are facing and what is going on scares me.

I am aware of the need for a stimulus package, but there is a big difference between how the Dems believe it should be done and the way the Republicans do.

Dems believe in government driving the economy. They want government involved in all aspects of our lives.

Republicans believe in enterprise driving the economy. They want people to be employed, earn their living and make their own choices on how to spend that which they have earned.

President Obama says he wants to create a stimulus plan which will put people back to work and kick start the economy. In the current stimulus bill passed by the House, among many other items, there is $50 million for RV trails, $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts and $200 million to reseed the National Mall. How are these things going to get the economy moving again.

What these and other "pork" items in this bill are is just a grab bag of every program the Dems have wanted to see funded for the last years and I don't think the time to fund them is now -- not when so many are out of work and so many companies are downsizing and/or closing.




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Kindle;1122018 wrote: [QUOTE=spot;1121883]I don't think you quite realize the crisis your country's in. QUOTE]

Yes I do realize the crisis we are facing and what is going on scares me.

I am aware of the need for a stimulus package, but there is a big difference between how the Dems believe it should be done and the way the Republicans do.

Dems believe in government driving the economy. They want government involved in all aspects of our lives.

Republicans believe in enterprise driving the economy. They want people to be employed, earn their living and make their own choices on how to spend that which they have earned.

President Obama says he wants to create a stimulus plan which will put people back to work and kick start the economy. In the current stimulus bill passed by the House, among many other items, there is $50 million for RV trails, $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts and $200 million to reseed the National Mall. How are these things going to get the economy moving again.

What these and other "pork" items in this bill are is just a grab bag of every program the Dems have wanted to see funded for the last years and I don't think the time to fund them is now -- not when so many are out of work and so many companies are downsizing and/or closing.


That would worry me.

Our government is currently bailing out various industries such as the banks and the car industry but it seems (unless i've missed something) that any such motions are to secure jobs, homes and kick-start the economy. I would be concerned should our PM start giving that sort of money to the arts. Yes, they need investment, but i agree with you that it is the timing. Surely this will cause some resentment in your country with folk trying to pay mortgages and hang on to their jobs?
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It does sound as though for some, Obama can't twitch without being hammered in a way that if it had happened with Bush, it would have been unAmerican.

Support your President? Kindle, you've been pushing pins into him since the moment of inauguration!
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Clodhopper;1122133 wrote: It does sound as though for some, Obama can't twitch without being hammered in a way that if it had happened with Bush, it would have been unAmerican.

Support your President? Kindle, you've been pushing pins into him since the moment of inauguration!


America has their hopes pinned on him. He is certainly going to come under intense scrutiny by his opposition.
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I don't think there are hopes attached to the pins Kindle is pushing!

Contrast it with Jester, who's patriotism is undoubted. He said early that this Administration really worried him and has barely been heard from since. It's a silence that echoes! When he opens his mouth on the issue I'll pay much more attention simply because he hasn't taken every opportunity to do the voodoo. With Kindle it looks like party; with Jester, conviction.
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Clodhopper;1122142 wrote: I don't think there are hopes attached to the pins Kindle is pushing!

Contrast it with Jester, who's patriotism is undoubted. He said early that this Administration really worried him and has barely been heard from since. It's a silence that echoes! When he opens his mouth on the issue I'll pay much more attention simply because he hasn't taken every opportunity to do the voodoo. With Kindle it looks like party; with Jester, conviction.


Yes, i have to give it to Jester that he is certainly patriotic and proud of his country. We honour him for that whilst i am fiercely patriotic and loyal to my PM and everyone thinks i'm a looney :wah:

I commented hard and fast on Obama during the elections. I believed there would be a lot of dissapointed Americans in two years time and i still think that way.
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Scrat;1122111 wrote: I completely disagree Spot. Now it's only 12, once the spotlight dims that tiny little insignificant 12 locusts will become a cloud that blots out the sun.

Nothing is going to change.


That's your belief. It's scarcely evidence. Come back and tell us when it happens.
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Kindle;1122018 wrote: [QUOTE=spot;1121883]I don't think you quite realize the crisis your country's in.


Yes I do realize the crisis we are facing and what is going on scares me.

I am aware of the need for a stimulus package, but there is a big difference between how the Dems believe it should be done and the way the Republicans do.

Dems believe in government driving the economy. They want government involved in all aspects of our lives.[/QUOTE]You've had a series of votes. The Democrats now rule the Senate, they now rule the House and they now rule the Administration. That rather stops the Republicans from saving the day, you'd think. Either you want the day saved or you don't. If you want it saving, stop tripping up the new administration. If you trip them up you're guaranteed to lose.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
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Scrat;1122195 wrote: I'll do that. I don't have much faith in this guy, I can't bring myself to trust any politician.


If you don't trust any of them it's a win win. If they stick to their promises, you get a nice surprise and if they don't, your not dissapointed :):)
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spot;1122165 wrote: You've had a series of votes. The Democrats now rule the Senate, they now rule the House and they now rule the Administration. That rather stops the Republicans from saving the day, you'd think. Either you want the day saved or you don't. If you want it saving, stop tripping up the new administration. If you trip them up you're guaranteed to lose.


All through Obama's campaign people just fell in love with the man every time he opened his mouth. It didn't matter that he kept changing his message. It didn't matter that he kept going back on his promises like, for instance, his agrement with McCain to use the limited legislative campaign funds. Didn't even make a difference when he was over heard making prejidiced derogitory statements about the mid-western steel workers he had just finished making a speech to.

Honestly, I think the man is a two-faced egotist who thinks he is THE-MAN in the flesh. He had the audacity, while meeting with republican congressmen one day after being sworn in, to say I WON and so I get to do whatever I want. Yeah, the house and senate are democratic. And now, the big payoff to all the Obama supporters begins. Hence the lobbiests getting the administrative jobs. Soon, look for reverand Wright to find his big payoff.

It's the small things that make me worry we have an out of control egoist in the white house. Little things like spending a fortune on his inaguation and his family and expecting the rest of the bleeding country to cut costs and bite the bullet. Obama makes a speech imploring people to keep their heat turned down and usage of energy low and HE KEEPS his heat turned up to eight-five.

Soon, very soon, this county will begin to figure out for themselves that they have voted into the white house an empty suit with delusions of grandure.

His own aunt, in this country illigally and about to be deported, was granted a free pass to stay as long as she likes two days ago.

Spot, and thousand of others like him, will have a rude awakening when they wake up some day in the near future and discover that thier job/home/savings/retirement has been given to some person of color who has been deemed more needy than they. Most likely they will just smile and chant, OBAMA, OBAMA, OBAMA.

I wouldn't be surprised if we begin to see governmental decrees coming from the white house regulating when and how we can spend the money we earn, smoking bans in our homes, dress codes for public areas, and laws dictating what type of cars we can drive or how much gas we can use etc. Guess what, people will take it too! People like the thousands who voted for the man who are ready to fall on their knees and kiss the ground the man walks on. You know, the ones that feel he can do no wrong and will make every excuse for his two faced dealings.

People, stockpile supplies now, prepare for the end times because, yes, change is coming. Just not the change we were expecting.
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I get the feeling I'm the only pro-American on the site.

The US is in a moral and economic hole and, if it's to get out by 2012, the steps taken by the Administration need cooperation. Obviously there are some who, for party-political reasons, would rather he failed. The trouble with that approach is the state the country will be in four years from now. I'd much rather he had the willing help of everyone than that he supervises a domestic catastrophe.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
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Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by Clodhopper »

Want to wow friends and colleagues by pretending you've been hobnobbing with global business and political leaders in Davos over the past 24 hours? Here's what you need to know:

1) Prime Minister Putin was conciliatory towards the West in a speech devoid of specific commitments on anything of substance. There was an audible "phew" from the global uber-elite.

2) The Chinese Premier, Wen Jiabao, both reassured and humiliated the western bankers. He reassured them with his account of how the supply of credit is rising again in China, which gives him confidence that the Chinese economy will grow by a more-than-respectable 8% in 2009. He embarrassed them with this manifestation of the strength of Chinese banks compared with their US, UK and eurozone peers (a strength that is the direct consequence of Chinese government policy).

It's very irksome for the Americans in particular that the Chinese version of what they see as their business model is holding up so well. And as if to rub their noses in it, the Chinese premier confided that he re-read Adam Smith over the summer (note "re-read") to reassure himself that the founder of modern economics wasn't the dogmatic opponent of government intervention that liberal market ideologues contend.


Quoted from Robert Peston's BBC Economics Blog for today. How do YOU like being patronised by the Chinese Communist Party Leader for our lack of economic sense? If Obama and the Democratic administration can't sort it out soon, we'll all be watching the Chinese Communist Party Congress, not the US election, in four years time.

I don't think any human could satisfy the expectations people have Obama. All the Republicans have to do is wait for the inevitable reaction. I'm sure they'll enjoy saying, "I told you so" as the ship sinks under them.

Many of the problems Obama is dealing with are a direct consequence of 8 years of Bush. Eg, Iraq (Happened under the Republicans), the collapse of the Western Banking system (Happened under the Republicans) and a decline in the reputation of America for basic competence unparalleled in my lifetime: the pictures of Bush and his pork barrel buddies completely failing to deal with the widely predicted flooding and evacuation of New Orleans went round the world. (Who was in power? Oh, the Republicans).

Like any political party that's gone rotten with power they need to spend 10-15 years in the wilderness to think about things.
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spot;1122165 wrote: You've had a series of votes. The Democrats now rule the Senate, they now rule the House and they now rule the Administration. That rather stops the Republicans from saving the day, you'd think. Either you want the day saved or you don't. If you want it saving, stop tripping up the new administration. If you trip them up you're guaranteed to lose.


Yes I want the stimulus bill to work. Part of our process in the US is the back and forth to gain the very best out of everything we do. Through discussions already many things have been removed from this bill and some other things added. Through criticisms by the Repulicans and other anyalists, the Dems stimulus package has the opportunity to evole into a better bill than it first began. We are not a monarchy or a dictatorship. We have free speech and we use it. I think we are the better for it.

The Wall Street Journal reported that only 12-cents out of every dollar in the currently passed stimulus bill will go toward improving the economy. The rest is welfare and spending programs.




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I can't find the link now but a few weeks back there was an article in one of the broadsheets that made me think.

It concerned the national debt of America to China which is standing at trillions. I agree that Obama needs to stimulate the economy but his bail-out money will most likely be borrowed from China or japan again. China are suffering themselves as a result of the economic collapse in America and i agree with the article when they said that given America's economy, they would best be suited not lending any more money to them.
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Clodhopper;1122142 wrote: I don't think there are hopes attached to the pins Kindle is pushing!

Contrast it with Jester, who's patriotism is undoubted. He said early that this Administration really worried him and has barely been heard from since. It's a silence that echoes! When he opens his mouth on the issue I'll pay much more attention simply because he hasn't taken every opportunity to do the voodoo. With Kindle it looks like party; with Jester, conviction.


Of course it is party. We have a two party system here in the US. There is a fundamental difference between how each party basically views how best to govern.

During the past 8 years of Bush that Republican view was not followed and the result has been a change in power in the House and Senate.

Silencing my voice is not a requirement for being a good American. Change has always come from speaking out.




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Kindle;1122279 wrote: Of course it is party. We have a two party system here in the US. There is a fundamental difference between how each party basically views how best to govern.

During the past 8 years of Bush that Republican view was not followed and the result has been a change in power in the House and Senate.

Silencing my voice is not a requirement for being a good American. Change has always come from speaking out.


In this country, we have Labour and Conservative. The alternative parties are not worthy of mention.

Once one is elected, the other has no say what's so ever in the running of the country or the government. They can put proposals forward but as the two are complete opposites, the one not in power usually ends up whistling in the wind. That's the way i like it :-6:-6:-6 All the time Gordon's in power that is.
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President Obama makes room for lobbyists

Post by Oscar Namechange »

jimbo;1122314 wrote: fear not spot i am very much pro Obama therefore pro american ,i am getting fed up with all these anti american posts :thinking::thinking::thinking:


Your statement is blatently Anti-British.

I thought this thread was about Obama giving hotels larger entrance's :thinking::thinking:
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Clodhopper
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President Obama makes room for lobbyists

Post by Clodhopper »

Kindle: :) It seems we understand eachother. Not always guaranteed when we talk across the pond!

My comment about the American Republican Party needing to spend many years in the wilderness is quite genuine. I said the same about the British Conservative Party when Major's lot fell to bits and the current crop are a vast improvement on their predecessors. Though I still think George Osborne (Shadow Chancellor) is dreadful.

Every political party needs it from time to time. My lot (Liberal Democrats) have had a century in the wilderness so we are EXACTLY what the country needs.:p
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Kindle
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Post by Kindle »

Rest assured, Clodhopper, my anxiety of this stimulus bill is not directed at President Obama. It is over the Dems not heeding our President's request for them to make this a bipartisan bill and present a bill that was 75% economy growing items and 25% tax reductions.

On top of all that, wall street really thumbed their noses at everyone with the 20 billion dollars they just paid out to themselves. President Obama was really upset over this and verbally took them to task publicly saying how shameful their behavior was and how they, of all people, knew better.




"Out, damned spot! out, I say!"

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Post by LilacDragon »

JAB;1122866 wrote: If you read the explanations that are being given today on these bonuses for bank employees, they say it is going to those like you and me that depend on the bonuses to make their mortgages, pay their rent etc. These are folks whose regular salaries are much like a salesperson's with their commission.

OK, to a certain degree, I buy that. But...companies everywhere that are not getting a bailout are having to make hard decisions of cutting people's benefits or pay. I don't see why those in the banking business should be any different.


Bonuses are what you get when you have done a good job and helped make the company money. If you base the purchase of your house on the size of your bonus and not your salary - you are a fool. Much of the reason that so many American's are losing their homes is because they bought homes they couldn't afford to start with.

While on paper America is a two party system (with a passing glance at the Independant party and the Green party) the fact of the matter is this - a politician will say whatever needs to be said to get elected but what they actually do depends on who gives them the most money or stuff.

As for the comment about any negative remarks about the current administration being anti-American - what a load of crap. My ancestors fought for my right to not only VOTE my opinion but SPEAK my opinion. It is my RIGHT as an American to hold my President to the promises that he made to me to be elected and to question the manner in which he runs my country. You have a right to your opinion but just because mine may be different - it most certainly does not mean that it is un-American.
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Oscar Namechange
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Clodhopper;1122354 wrote: Kindle: :) It seems we understand eachother. Not always guaranteed when we talk across the pond!

My comment about the American Republican Party needing to spend many years in the wilderness is quite genuine. I said the same about the British Conservative Party when Major's lot fell to bits and the current crop are a vast improvement on their predecessors. Though I still think George Osborne (Shadow Chancellor) is dreadful.

Every political party needs it from time to time. My lot (Liberal Democrats) have had a century in the wilderness so we are EXACTLY what the country needs.:p


:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl Cloddy mate!!!!!!!!! I caught yer I caught yer :yh_rotfl Your rumbled my old China....... your a Lib Dem :yh_rotfl

I am sure Kindle has never heard of the British Lib Dems nor Major or Osborne. :confused:

Sorry to take the thread away from Obama momentarily but i must reply to Cloddy.

We do agree some-where. I said the same about Major and the Conservative Government although the rot truely set in under Thatcher. However, although anything has to be better than the Thatcher and Major Parties, I feel Cameron's bunch has nothing to offer but yes, Osborne is truely awful. By co-incidence, my 15 minutes of fame led me to some interviews on BBC radio off the back of recent statements made by the Shadow Home secretary, Dominic Grieve. Without banging on and hogging the thread, I believe the second largest issue in our country right now behind the economy is youth crime. It is a huge issue that goes cap in hand with under policing, soft sentences and today i was on BBC radio Northampton again in a debate on the growing tide of vigilantee's in our country.

I believe Gordon Brown is the best man to steer us through the economic difficultie's but he must address this crime. Dominic Grieve is the one Tory i give credence to and from some very powerfull statements he has made over recent months (yeah we all know an elections due), he seems to be right on the nail. If Gordon doesn't take his stance on crime, i do believe it could be the one issue that could win the Tory's the next election. The last statement Grieve made was e mailed to me the day before it hit the press and i was asked to comment on it. Without going into his proposals, i told the researcher that i was totally in agreement with him. The Tory's will win many votes off Grieve's proposals.

But a Lib Dem? 100 years in the wilderness?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Post by double helix »

Kindle;1122276 wrote: Yes I want the stimulus bill to work. Part of our process in the US is the back and forth to gain the very best out of everything we do. Through discussions already many things have been removed from this bill and some other things added. Through criticisms by the Repulicans and other anyalists, the Dems stimulus package has the opportunity to evole into a better bill than it first began. We are not a monarchy or a dictatorship. We have free speech and we use it. I think we are the better for it.

The Wall Street Journal reported that only 12-cents out of every dollar in the currently passed stimulus bill will go toward improving the economy. The rest is welfare and spending programs.
There, Kindle has it right. 12 cents on the dollar in the currently passed house bill is for stimulus the REST IS ON PORK. Now its up to 900 billion with even more PORK tacked on. Sick b###### in politics. NO, sick democratic b###### tacking on programs to benifit THEIR constiuents and NOT the entire country.

No, this isn't an act of cooperation to bail out the economy. This is a feeding frenzy in a shark infested political pool.

Personally, I'm learning Chinese, how to use chop sticks and stockpiling fifty pound bags of rice.:thinking:
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Oscar Namechange
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President Obama makes room for lobbyists

Post by Oscar Namechange »

double helix;1122899 wrote: There, Kindle has it right. 12 cents on the dollar in the currently passed house bill is for stimulus the REST IS ON PORK. Now its up to 900 billion with even more PORK tacked on. Sick b###### in politics. NO, sick democratic b###### tacking on programs to benifit THEIR constiuents and NOT the entire country.

No, this isn't an act of cooperation to bail out the economy. This is a feeding frenzy in a shark infested political pool.

Personally, I'm learning Chinese, how to use chop sticks and stockpiling fifty pound bags of rice.:thinking:


Hey, I just noticed....... Your from the same place as Sarah Palin!!! How's she doing? Our press stopped reporting on her when Mccain went out.

I got this song in my head and it's driving me nut's. How does it go again? ummm I know 'bomb bomb bomb... bomb bomb Iran.

Naughty McCain:sneaky::sneaky::sneaky:
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Kindle
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Post by Kindle »

oscar;1122950 wrote: Hey, I just noticed....... Your from the same place as Sarah Palin!!! How's she doing? Our press stopped reporting on her when Mccain went out.

I got this song in my head and it's driving me nut's. How does it go again? ummm I know 'bomb bomb bomb... bomb bomb Iran.

Naughty McCain:sneaky::sneaky::sneaky:


Sarah is in DC this weekend. She'll be attending an elite do there rubbing elbows with our President and many other high ranking politicians.




"Out, damned spot! out, I say!"

- William Shakespeare, Macbeth, 5.1
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Oscar Namechange
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President Obama makes room for lobbyists

Post by Oscar Namechange »

Kindle;1122955 wrote: Sarah is in DC this weekend. She'll be attending an elite do there rubbing elbows with our President and many other high ranking politicians. Good for her. Glad she's still up there with them. :D
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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