Why do we do it to ourselves???

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:44 am

I'm feeling pretty annoyed with myself at the moment. Last summer I walked out on my marriage of nearly ten years. Myself and my two children had no-where to go, so we spent eight weeks with my sister before the local authority put us into B&B. Which was hell!

In the time we were gone my husband hardly saw the children, saying it was too painful to have to drop them back to me and leave them again.

We had one session at Relate during the split where I totally suprised myself and went to town on him, I ranted, I raved, but of course this was all in the safety of the Relate office, I felt safe, I'm actually scared of him and his temper.

His doctor put him on anti-depressants and he was a different man, we met a few times and I agreed to return 'home' - this is another one of our 'issues' I hate living here. I said I would return if we agreed to sell the house (theres some work to be carried out first to make it marketable), he attends Anger Management, and we return to Relate. All of which he agreed to.

I returned home at the beginning of November, he bought me a new computer for my birthday which was a wonderful suprise (the only other present he ever bought me was a hairdryer one christmas).

Christmas came and he made Christmas Day miserable because back in July of that year I had invited my Mum for Christmas Dinner and I felt it would be rude to not have her. Over the Christmas period he stopped taking his anti-depressants and I have slowly watched him become the manipulative bleep bleep that I left last year. He regularly smokes pot, but he cannot see that it is affecting him mentally. He is like a Jekyll and Hyde!

Everytime Relate rang with an opening he was too busy with work, the same goes for anger management.

I have suffered with eczema all my life, but kept it under control previously. Most of the time I have known him it has been on my face, I know he has lowered my self esteem and friends and family despair that I returned. So do I now.

I know the time is coming for us to go our separate ways, only he won't see it and spends his time telling all and sundry what a wonderful husband and father he is, and what a crap housewife and mother I am. He also tells the children this.

It won't be easy and I could even be here for another year or two yet, I need to stash away money for a deposit and then actually find a property to rent. He won't give up this house without a fight, realistically he can't afford to be here on his own, but he also refuses to leave and let me and the children stay here. I know the law and that I am entitled to the house for the time being if we split. The problem is going to be getting him out.

Why did I come back??????!!!!!!

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:53 am

We have all been in those situations...kicking ourselves in the arse. Sounds to me you know exactly what you need to do...in your heart. You just have to do it?

smithy87 · Post by **smithy87** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:11 am

You returned because you thought your husband was making an effort to mend his ways and create a better environment for you and your children. Unfortunately, through no fault of your own, he has decided he's better off without his medication and counselling.

It would be easy for people to tell you to get out and leave him again and its understandable your worries about the house. But is it gonna be worth staying with him for another year? What about if you don't save as much as you'd like and then you think to yourself 'maybe just another year'....

You don't deserve someone who is supposed to love you, to bully you and mentally abuse you. You're not there for that and neither are your children. Are there no other family members that could help you? Before you worry yourself to death over what to do, why not see a solicitor and see where you stand legally over the children and the house. He doesn't have to know you've been.

There will never be a good time to leave him and I wish you and your children all the luck in the world

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:24 am

sounds awful

i agree with the the post about you stay a year and then what if it becomes another year etc

i know ure plan is to save money but if you have a really good look round some mortgage companies will offer really surprising deals......

i think get out sooner rather than later, if ure sure you want you go why wait another year, as my signature says 'lifes too short'

but then i do know how scary it can be to go out there into the world on your own, its not an easy thing to especially when you also have the added responsibility of children....

if things are meant to be with your partner they will be, but by the sounds of it he needs some serious alone time and sort himself out.....

take care, keep us posted

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:25 am

Let's say you now have the money for a downpayment and first month's rent? What other obstacle are you going to throw in your way? I know how tough it is to come up with this kind of money, but another year with him? Do you want your children growing up thinking his behavior is normal, they should stay with an abusive person whether it be mental or physical, etc.? You have got to get it in your heart and your head that it is time to move on. Until then, you will throw all kind of obstacles in your way. This time though, you have to remember how he changed only to go back to his old ways, and not go back again. I wish you luck. It's not easy, but you CAN do it.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:09 am

I know finding accomodation sounds like an excuse, it is virtually impossible to rent a property here, you get some short term lets - ie summer holiday cottages that come up for rent through winter, but they don't want children! or they don't want DSS, which I know I can get past by having the deposit and first months rent and then suddenly declare a change of circumstance to the landlord.

The local housing authority has something like 2,500 people on its list and they won't even look at me because by leaving this house I voluntarily make myself and my children homeless!

My Mum is nearly 75 and in sheltered housing and I don't like to tell her too much as she makes herself ill with worry. My sister is understanding but our relationship would be severly tested if I turned up on her doorstep again!! My brother has a one bedroom flat, so no room there!!

I know that legally the children and I are entitled to the house until the children leave school or college. If the house was to be sold I'd be entitled to 60% in view of the fact that I have the children.

I know I could go to a refuge, but I really don't want to be separated from my family and freinds, and why should he drive me away from my home town!!!!

Thanks for all the good wishes!

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:14 am

i dont know your personal financial situations etc but i do know from my own experience of mortgages and recently my brothers that there are some deals out there to be had....

depends how much of a mortgage you would want to take on etc

i dont know if you have your own job to get a mortgage against....

do you think your partner would be willing to be 'accomodating' with all this if you told him how you felt? or do you think he would turn nasty?? im guessing the latter part.....

really though, one thing that worries me is what if you wait the year to get out but something happens to you in that year because of him?? your children would be left.... you and they should get out now......

Bothwell · Post by **Bothwell** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:28 am

Get to the Citizens advice bureau, look on the web for local (usually female) solicitors that will assist with chucking him out, talk to social services, try the Church housing association (don't worry I'm not an evangelist but they are sometimes better at helping these cases).

You have the two children, you can get him out in days, do not if you can help it make yourself voluntarily homeless. Can you go back to the house and the kids be looked after locally til you get him out?

I have to say (as you already know) this will get messy, but you have a right to your share of the house, you have two children to consider. There will be local voluntary help that will give you assistance with counselling etc.

It's a crap situation Betty, I wish you luck but do not put yourself or the children in any danger over this.

Try this link, they can help with lots of things

http://www.advocacydirectory.com/

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:33 am

I have a line, it's called my "too crazy for me" line. When a realtionship crosses that line, I end it. I make sure my mate understands just where that line exists and that I will do what it takes to control my own life. I'm not a selfish person, quite the opposite really, but I refuse to be co-dependent. so in the words I used when both my engines caught fire on takeoff in the Air Force....

Bailout! Bailout! Bailout!

(Actually I said "eject" but you get the idea.)

Post by **kensloft** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:46 am

I have to agree with Jives and Bothwell. You have to leave. If he senses that you are going to leave and is not seeking counselling or taking his medication you are in for more trouble than you would care to imagine.

The children's sanity is the most important prt of the deal. It will ruin their lives and perhaps take years of counselling for them to be able to just get handle on the problem. Their mental state could last a lifetime and they don't need to continue the cycle of abuse that is happening in their homelife now.

You have the computer and that is an asset but remember to clear the history in it otherwise he may get on it and see what you are doing. He would(note: did not say could) get nasty. It is you first and the kids second. You first because if you aren't well then there is no one to take care of the children. In a sense it is the children first but I am sure that you understand what is being said.

Don't wait for the disaster to happen. Preclude the problems. If you have to move away for a while... do so. You can always come back to your family. They won't hold it against you.

Stay safe for everybody's sake.

I wish you all the best and pray that you will be doing the right thing in the near future.

minks · Post by **minks** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:52 am

my advise hun, get a good lawyer, with you having the children you ought to be entitled to loads.

Having been there done that, stick with your resolve to leave and move forward. Your soon to be ex may not just have depression it may be bi polar and that is even worse. If you fear for your safety and childrens safety go ahead with your plans and end your marriage. Be confident in your decisions and think of the future. You can do it it takes time but you sound much like myself, you have the drive to move on.

PM me if you wish. This is all very familiar and fresh to me.

minks · Post by **minks** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:12 am

Doctor Who wrote: I have to say I agree with most of the above responses. Having said that it's not easy. The housing situation is crazy over here at the mo. I think that, unless you are worried that he will do something really harmfull to you or your kids, you should go with trying to get him out, rather than leaving yourself. Other than that, could you stay with your mum for a bit until he gets out of the house.

The cannabis smoking will make him very unstable and unpredictable. Your kids wont be helped much by seeing this, and the longer it goes on the stronger the effect it will have on them. I wish you luck with a very difficult decision

Sooo true, drugs are not a bloody solution and he isn't setting any kind of an example for your precious kids. We support you girl

Post by **Betty Boop** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:50 am

[Quote: originally by kensloft

You have the computer and that is an asset but remember to clear the history in it otherwise he may get on it and see what you are doing. He would(note: did not say could) get nasty. It is you first and the kids second. You first because if you aren't well then there is no one to take care of the children. In a sense it is the children first but I am sure that you understand what is being said.

That's a good point!! my computer is in the bedroom, and he was up here for a while last night and I was downstairs thinking 'oh my god' he's up there and what if he starts looking around, he's not particularily good with computers but it would be just my luck that an e-mail came in regarding this site and he followed the links!! So I came upstairs on the pretext of e-mailing my brother and then shut it down, I know he wouldn't bother turning it back on and he needs help to get on-line!!! So now this morning I've turned off the E-mail alerts and will delete my history!!! Must also remember to log out!!!

I can't stay with my Mum as she's in sheltered housing and it's not allowed. In desparation I could go to my brother but he's in a housing assoc. property and it's not really allowed there either!

If things get really bad and i could find a property to rent my freind would bail me out with a loan.

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:01 am

oh gosh hon you shouldnt have to live with those kind of fears.....

im sorry but can we just reclairfy what ure situation is with respects to getting out - i know you cant stay with ure mum and not really ure brother and as you just said u may be able to get a loan from a friend but........

in terms of staying in the house you are in now or getting a new house?? do you have to buy him out?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:15 am

The law says that I am entitled to the house whilst the children are in full time education, then when the youngest leaves school the house would be sold and split 50/50. My youngest is three so thats a long way off yet! The problem is physically getting him out, he loves this house, to me it's just bricks and mortar!!

If I leave and insist he sells or buys me out, he has to give me 60% of the house value in veiw of the fact I have the children, and they are still at school age.

I wouldn't be expected to buy him out until the children are older as the children have to have somewhere to live, I'm not currently working so it would be impossible anyway! In the future I would be looking to buy him out though just for closure but not sure whether I would then have to give him 40 or 50%!!

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:17 am

so he has to choose to leave voluntarily?

you cant involve the law and say hes mistreated you and have them boot him out on those grounds?

is he aggressive with you? for want of a nice way of putting it...... sorry

Post by **Betty Boop** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:24 am

He's bruised me in the past by tipping me out of bed while I was asleep. But that happened too long ago for it to be used now as a reason to get him out. He's very clever, as they all are, not to physically hurt me, it's mental abuse, which is worse because there is no visible evidence, just my word against his!

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:30 am

If he loves the house so much, why not get it valued and then split the equity on it?

This way, he gets to keep his house & you ( hopefuly ) have enough cash to put a deposit on a let.

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:33 am

my knowledge on this isnt that great but im sure theres something that can be done for mental abuse, its still abuse isnt it

and given his medical history im sure people could see that there is a problem

try the CAB and see if they can point you in the direction of anywhere..... they are usually really helpful, maybe the samaritans if not the CAB...... i really think as ive said already that you should get out sooner rather than later

i mean god forbid it should happen but what if during the year ure saving he did something to one of the kids, youd never forgive yourself..... its a sticky situation and i dont think theres gonna be a quick easy way out but surely any way out is better than what your in at the moment???

Post by **Betty Boop** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:35 am

Could do, but the house isn't marketable right now, too many jobs started and not finished, we have no living room at the moment, it's being gutted! I suppose it would sell eventually but at a reduced price.

Making some phone calls today, and getting more advice.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:47 am

I have unsubscribed from threads, and I think I'm right in thinking that I'll recieve no more e-mails and there'll be no more tick marks appearing on the threads. Hoping I've covered my tracks!!

Part of me feels I should be doing housework today etc to keep somebody happy but I've just come to the decision that nothing I do will be right so i'm off out with the kids to the park and some normal 'company' - my brother! Who by the way I was accused of having an affair with!

Will check out when the CAB is open, they are continually engaged at the moment.

Bothwell · Post by **Bothwell** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:08 am

Betty try the advocacy link I put up, I hear good things about them.

PS he will actually have to contribute for the whole term of your child education so it's not just school but university if they go.

Have a nice day at the park!

Post by **Betty Boop** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:36 am

thanks Bothwell, i have had a quick look, I assume you live in this area too?

Will take a further look now whilst the children eat their lunch, then we're off!

(to the park - that is!!)

Post by **kensloft** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:47 am

If your husband was on heroin or speed or coke I woud be pushing for you to get out the door but cannabis can calm a lot of people and give them other perspectives to look at their lives from on a day to day basis. It is not the pot but the person and the personality that worries me. If anything, it allows him to think on his own and that is no excuse for prior behaviour. Has he been smoking for long?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:15 am

He's been on it ever since I've known him, but back then it was once in a while, say every month or so. It's just built and built until I discovered recently he's actually taking it to work. He says he needs it to get through the day with the people he works with. But in all honesty here is a man that doesn't stay in a job for longer than 18months, he ends up in a fight or threatening someone, he packed in a good job recently in temper and yes he's found another one but the wages are less than half of what he earned before. I can't afford to go food shopping and put diesel in the car, therefore I'm a touch resentful of him spending Ã‚Â£60 approx/month on this habit!

Post by **kensloft** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:47 pm

Betty Boop wrote: He's been on it ever since I've known him, but back then it was once in a while, say every month or so. It's just built and built until I discovered recently he's actually taking it to work. He says he needs it to get through the day with the people he works with. But in all honesty here is a man that doesn't stay in a job for longer than 18months, he ends up in a fight or threatening someone, he packed in a good job recently in temper and yes he's found another one but the wages are less than half of what he earned before. I can't afford to go food shopping and put diesel in the car, therefore I'm a touch resentful of him spending Ã‚Â£60 approx/month on this habit!

I've been smoking pot for 40 years. I can smoke or not smoke. There is the idea of too much of a good thing can be bad. Some people use it to mellow out and cope. If he is prone to being argumentative then it could possibly make it such that he is not losing a job every two or three months. Talk to him about it. Tell him you heard that there are prople that don't smoke as much as they used to but are just as content with what they now smoke. I am at a loss as to the prices and amounts that are to be had. In Canada a gram goes for about 10 dollars(5 pounds?) It would last me for about 7 - 10 days. (mind you it could be smoked at one sitting with a couple of friends). Sometimes people get into sharing and find themselves consuming more than they should. Think sitting at the bar and everybody is buying each other a round. You drink more than you should and get wasting all your money being friendly. Then you have none and get... ? The key is moderation. You can only get so high on pot and to try and smoke yourself into getting higher is like beating a dead horse. It doesn't work. Don't blame the wrong thing for the problem.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:53 am

What about the fact that when he is getting low on his stock, he becomes like an adder, if he doesn't collect some before that runs out he's unbearable. He's got to have it or he can't function. He draws us all in to an argument - even the children.

Most nights waiting for him to come home from work I spend my time physically shaking, I don't think we can get back to 'normality'. I cannot live being scared like this. He has refused to go to Relate, let alone anger management. I'm a nervous wreck sitting here now, he could come back from fishing at any time, if he's caught something he'll be happy, if he's not caught anything, well he be miserable and start nit-picking.

Post by **kensloft** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:45 am

I wholly understand what you are saying. If you can't stand the pain then you should leave(he should leave). He needs it because he knows that it helps him to cope and he doesn't want to be without. (too bad it isn't legal or decriminalized) Believe me if he was on harder drugs what you seem to be going through right now would be heaven.

What are the arguments about that gets him leaving his employment? People can be extremely subtle and make something else seem to be the reason why the conflict occurs. What if he's not wrong? I've been in those circumstances before and it is not pleasant because there is no way to relate one to the other. I'm not trying to make excuses for his behaviour but sometimes things are not how they seem. What does he do for a living?

It is easier to talk to someone when they are on pot but it is all in how you broach the subject. Being argumentative won't do it because he will become aloof and won't talk. Straight talk is what it is about. Don't argue. Be reasonable. Try writing your concerns to him that way he can look at his leisure and can formulate his anwers. Ask him what he needs? The tensions that come with confrontation or in person dialogue aren't there and he can rationalize what he wants to do in the way of response.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:47 am

I would actually rather walk away than argue, I hate confrontation involving nastiness and saying things you don't mean in temper. I've left him be over the last weekend, and he went to work on Monday and came home a different man! I cannot fathom him out at all!

He went to work calm and ok this morning so hopefully this evening we'll be able to have a 'conversation' about all that has been going on without him losing his temper. I have to somehow get it over to him how scared he makes me feel when he is in a temper.

At the moment he is a gardener.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:59 am

i know very little about what is going on here, but forgive me, i have a question....is this man bipolar! undiagnosed?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:25 am

Don't know?? What does bipolar mean??? How do you get it diagnosed??

devist8me · Post by **devist8me** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:09 am

Its what used to be called "manic depression".

Bipolar disorder

Definition

Bipolar, or manic-depressive disorder, is a mood disorder that causes radical emotional changes and mood swings, from manic highs to depressive lows. The majority of bipolar individuals experience alternating episodes of mania and depression.

Here's the rest of the web page if interested:

http://www.chclibrary.org/micromed/00039880.html

My ex husband was diagnosed with this. He was treated with Lithium. I know how he was before I left him, but wasn't involved with much of his treatment as he was diagnosed after I left (supposedly).

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:04 am

We've managed to 'talk' over the last two nights. He blames his mood on my monthly cycle, yes I get snappy but I'm not nasty or abusive. I don't understand why he can't back off when he realises it's a hormonal thing. He's always got to make remarks about it coming up to the wrong time of the month again.

I think I've managed to get through to him that he physically scares me, and he can't really understand why, but I've told him the whole point is he does scare me when in temper and the temper can last days which is unacceptable with the children around.

I don't know about this bipolar thing, when he was on anti-depressants he was much calmer and certainly easier to live with, but he says that they make him lethargic, friends commented on how relaxed and chatty he was whilst taking them, I suggested that maybe he hadn't given them long enough to work and also pointed out that he took them in the winter months when it's natural to be not so active.

I do feel a lot of this is about me not paying him enough 'attention', something freinds and I have joked about in general and we have come to the conclusion we have an extra child!!!

I've told him that I came close to leaving, and he admitted that at one point he would have been happy for me to do so. I also pointed out that if we continue to make each other unhappy it may be best to split as amicably as possible for the sake of the children.

We also discussed the dope, and he aggreed he is smoking it a lot more and will try to cut back! Haven't seen any evidence yet though!

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:13 am

the dope----self-medicating something! and you are physically afraid? has he hit you???

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:30 am

I'm not physically afraid right now, but I am when he's in a temper.

No he's never hit me.

smithy87 · Post by **smithy87** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:06 am

So are you both seeing how the land lies for now? Is he upset that you are scared of him? And does he agree that if the unhappiness carries on you should split?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:04 am

Seeing how the land lies at the mo, but I feel he's the one sitting watching, expecting me to behave properly, ie be the loving wife, sex four or five times a week, cooking and cleaning! Can't see it lasting!!

Not very positive am I!

Everything is ok at the moment, but if I'm really honest, I'm not relaxed and at ease with myself. It's finding the guts to go. I don't think he would ever agree to an amicable split. He will always say I'm taking the kids away from him etc etc. He's one of those people that you either get on with or hate, if he doesn't like someone then he's pretty blunt about it, he doesn't appear to have any social graces.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu May 05, 2005 12:15 am

Well guys this is Goodbye for now, will try and update you when I can. I'm packing a few bits and leaving today. Will be filing for divorce asap. Can hardly type as I'm shaking so much.

Heres to a better life for me away from a bully.

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Thu May 05, 2005 4:54 am

the best wishes to you and good luck with absolutely everything

if you need us were all here, find an internet cafe

take care x