A political concensus

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:22 am

High Threshold wrote: Well, my proposal was really meant for miss piggy but I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t think it would work out anyway so youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re in with a good shot. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll have to get back to you with that documentation (Monday perhaps) but I promise to be on my best behaviour and youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll be swooning before you can say Ã¢â‚¬¦Ã¢â‚¬¦. uh Ã¢â‚¬¦.. er .... what was that now?

Ã¢â‚¬Å“Never leave youÃ¢â‚¬? Promise!

Ill be counting the seconds.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:19 am

Okay, apparently High Opinion of Himself is old enough to drink - must be drunk to post tripe like that.

Ah well, I guess pretention is a virtue in Switzerland.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:33 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: There seems to be a considerable difference between europe & the US on the issue. Here most would accept the govt has a role in helping people out of poverty and making life better for the less fortunate and shou,d provide educaion, health services etc as a matter of right to the people electing them. I might be wrong but inthe US if you can't afford medical services they seem to leave you to die. At least every US medical drama seems to bring the ussie up.

That's pretty much how it is, sad isn't it?

Yah it is sad huh? The good ol USA never gave nobody nuttin but coal in their stockins.........RIGHT?

"I might be wrong but inthe US if you can't afford medical services they seem to leave you to die".

Just before Christmas, the Arizona state Legislature approved nearly $3 million in public funds to cover kidney dialysis treatment and cancer chemotherapy for illegal aliens. Meanwhile, many indigent senior citizens -- American citizens -- must abide by stricter limits, fewer choices, and rising prices on everything from earpieces to walkers to pain medications under their government health-care coverage.

"I might be wrong but inthe US if you can't afford medical services they seem to leave you to die".

In North Carolina, the Medicaid emergency services program averages 221 new cases involving aliens every month -- a large number of whom are illegal, according to one state official. Last year, those services cost taxpayers $31.9 million.

"I might be wrong but inthe US if you can't afford medical services they seem to leave you to die".

.

In Chicago, one hospital alone is footing a $650,000 bill this year for organ and stem cell transplants (plus post-care treatment) for three illegal alien children. The hospital will receive no federal or state reimbursement for the care -- which it is forced by federal law to provide when "undocumented" patients show up at the emergency room. Like other medical care providers across the country, the hospital is grappling with massive Medicaid budget cuts that will curtail services for American citizens whose money supports the system in the first place.

GEE wizzzz I wonder how the hospital recoops that loss.... HMMM maybe joe taxpayer?

"I might be wrong but inthe US if you can't afford medical services they seem to leave you to die".

Opponents of free medical care for chronically ill illegal aliens are naturally cast as heartless penny-pinchers. But just how much compassion for non-citizens can this country afford? And how long will taxpayers tolerate such unfair appropriations of money from law-abiding Americans to law-breaking foreigners?

It's time for the feds to step up and pull the plug on interminable health benefits for illegal aliens. The State Department should seek reimbursement from the home countries of the most expensive, chronically ill patients. The Immigration and Naturalization Service should get serious about deportation. And we Americans should all stop apologizing for wanting to prevent our home from becoming a safe haven for sickly moochers from around the world.

My point is we are subidising illegals and STILL give health care to any PERSON in the US ...........

Your statement is all BS anti American probaganda. check these sites out that tell you how and what you must do to get medical treatment, food stamps, child care and on and on illegal or not:

http://www.healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/D ... on=Staging

http://www.govbenefits.gov/govbenefits/index.jhtml

http://www.govbenefits.gov/govbenefits/ ... tate.jhtml

Here is a questioneer to see if you qualify for my state of New Mexico...I did qualify for some assistance.

http://www.govbenefits.gov/govbenefits/ ... ico&oid=NM

"I might be wrong but inthe US if you can't afford medical services they seem to leave you to die".

New Mexico Medicaid Am I eligible? Eligibility criteria

In order to qualify for this benefit program, you must be a resident of the state of New Mexico, a US national, citizen, permanent resident, or legal alien, in need of health care/insurance assistance, whose financial situation would be characterized as low income or very low income. You must also be either pregnant, a parent or relative caretaker of a dependent child(ren) under age 19, blind, have a disability or a family member in your household with a disability, or be 65 years of age or older.

Description

The New Mexico Medicaid program is a Federal and state funded program that serves needy individuals and families in New Mexico who meet financial and other eligibility requirements and certain other individuals who lack adequate resources to pay for medical care.

The program provides payment for medical services ranging from routine preventive medical care for children to institutional care for the elderly and disabled. The Medicaid program also ensures access to care through enrollment of medical providers and access to transportation services to medical care providers through reimbursement to recipients and volunteer drivers.

"I might be wrong but inthe US if you can't afford medical services they seem to leave you to die".

Yes you MIGHT be wrong!!!

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:49 am

"That's pretty much how it is, sad isn't it?"

Sad that a citizen of our country is so down on her on country that she would ignore all we do and focus on the rare. But then, I don't qualify to comment because the system works for me. I'm such an elitist bastard!

Excuse me while I self-flagellate.

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:49 am

BTS wrote: Yah it is sad huh? The good ol USA never gave nobody nuttin but coal in their stockins.........RIGHT?

"I might be wrong but inthe US if you can't afford medical services they seem to leave you to die".

Just before Christmas, the Arizona state Legislature approved nearly $3 million in public funds to cover kidney dialysis treatment and cancer chemotherapy for illegal aliens. Meanwhile, many indigent senior citizens -- American citizens -- must abide by stricter limits, fewer choices, and rising prices on everything from earpieces to walkers to pain medications under their government health-care coverage.

"I might be wrong but inthe US if you can't afford medical services they seem to leave you to die".

In North Carolina, the Medicaid emergency services program averages 221 new cases involving aliens every month -- a large number of whom are illegal, according to one state official. Last year, those services cost taxpayers $31.9 million.

"I might be wrong but inthe US if you can't afford medical services they seem to leave you to die".

.

In Chicago, one hospital alone is footing a $650,000 bill this year for organ and stem cell transplants (plus post-care treatment) for three illegal alien children. The hospital will receive no federal or state reimbursement for the care -- which it is forced by federal law to provide when "undocumented" patients show up at the emergency room. Like other medical care providers across the country, the hospital is grappling with massive Medicaid budget cuts that will curtail services for American citizens whose money supports the system in the first place.

GEE wizzzz I wonder how the hospital recoops that loss.... HMMM maybe joe taxpayer?

"I might be wrong but inthe US if you can't afford medical services they seem to leave you to die".

Opponents of free medical care for chronically ill illegal aliens are naturally cast as heartless penny-pinchers. But just how much compassion for non-citizens can this country afford? And how long will taxpayers tolerate such unfair appropriations of money from law-abiding Americans to law-breaking foreigners?

It's time for the feds to step up and pull the plug on interminable health benefits for illegal aliens. The State Department should seek reimbursement from the home countries of the most expensive, chronically ill patients. The Immigration and Naturalization Service should get serious about deportation. And we Americans should all stop apologizing for wanting to prevent our home from becoming a safe haven for sickly moochers from around the world.

My point is we are subidising illegals and STILL give health care to any PERSON in the US ...........

Your statement is all BS anti American probaganda. check these sites out that tell you how and what you must do to get medical treatment, food stamps, child care and on and on illegal or not:

http://www.healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/D ... on=Staging

http://www.govbenefits.gov/govbenefits/index.jhtml

http://www.govbenefits.gov/govbenefits/ ... tate.jhtml

Here is a questioneer to see if you qualify for my state of New Mexico...I did qualify for some assistance.

http://www.govbenefits.gov/govbenefits/ ... ico&oid=NM

"I might be wrong but inthe US if you can't afford medical services they seem to leave you to die".

New Mexico Medicaid Am I eligible? Eligibility criteria

In order to qualify for this benefit program, you must be a resident of the state of New Mexico, a US national, citizen, permanent resident, or legal alien, in need of health care/insurance assistance, whose financial situation would be characterized as low income or very low income. You must also be either pregnant, a parent or relative caretaker of a dependent child(ren) under age 19, blind, have a disability or a family member in your household with a disability, or be 65 years of age or older.

Description

The New Mexico Medicaid program is a Federal and state funded program that serves needy individuals and families in New Mexico who meet financial and other eligibility requirements and certain other individuals who lack adequate resources to pay for medical care.

The program provides payment for medical services ranging from routine preventive medical care for children to institutional care for the elderly and disabled. The Medicaid program also ensures access to care through enrollment of medical providers and access to transportation services to medical care providers through reimbursement to recipients and volunteer drivers.

"I might be wrong but inthe US if you can't afford medical services they seem to leave you to die".

Yes you MIGHT be wrong!!!
LOL! Yeah right, check out the criteria.........A National Heathcare system like acroos the pond and North to the American border would suit this country fine.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:51 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: LOL! Yeah right, check out the criteria.........A National Heathcare system like acroos the pond and North to the American border would suit this country fine.Give me your address. I'll send you a compass.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:07 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: LOL! Yeah right, check out the criteria.........A National Heathcare system like acroos the pond and North to the American border would suit this country fine.

Weird that Germany restructured their socialized health care after the US.

They did this because it was breaking the governments back to subsidise it all.

And how about these facts???

One of the most persistent myths about the U.S. health care system is that poor people lack access. While we allegedly provide luxury health care for the rich, we do much less than other countries for those in poverty. However, the data tell a different story.

The government's Medical Expenditure Panel Survey (MEPS) tabulates health care spending for a sample of over 35,000 Americans. One of the variables included in the survey is household income relative to the poverty line.

When the data for 2002 (the latest survey year available) are extrapolated to the full noninstitutional population, one obtains these results for persons below the poverty line:

Number of Persons: 35.6 million

Total Spending: $106.3 billion

Per Capita Spending: $2,986

Next, look at data on per capita spending on health care in various countries, as compiled by the OECD. In 2002, per capita spending in Canada was $2,931, in France it was $2,736, in Germany it was $2,817, and in the United Kingdom it was $2,160. The United States spends more on the average poor person than those countries spend on the average person.

In fact, the MEPS data understate spending in the United States, in part, as it is limited to the noninstitutional population. Therefore, it excludes nursing home expenditures. When those are added in, the per capita spending in the United States on those in poverty will turn out to be higher.

Still, people who are above the poverty line receive much more medical care in the United States, right? Wrong. In the MEPS data, the per capita spending rate for people above the poverty line is $2,789, essentially the same as the rate for poor people. (Again, the MEPS data excludes spending on nursing homes, research and development, and other categories that show up in countries' national income accounts.)

If the United States does not lag in spending on health care for the poor, then this undermines one of the arguments for adopting a more European or Canadian style health care system. Our challenge is not to redirect resources toward the poor but to come up with better approaches for improving public health.

In Medicaid, we already have the sort of state-funded health care system for the poor that other countries provide for everyone. It is difficult to see how expanding that system to the middle class (as Howard Dean, among others, has proposed) will make the poor better off.

I believe that there are genuine problems with our health care system. Studies and anecdotal evidence suggest that the uninsured and the poor receive inferior care. But I do not believe that there are any easy answers. In particular, I fail to see how any fair-minded individual could conclude that we ought to increase government's role in health care finance. If the poor under Medicaid are not as well cared for as the rest of us under private systems, then government-funded health care would seem to be part of the problem, not the solution.

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:27 am

BTS wrote: Weird that Germany restructured their socialized health care after the US.

They did this because it was breaking the governments back to subsidise it all.

And how about these facts???

One of the most persistent myths about the U.S. health care system is that poor people lack access. While we allegedly provide luxury health care for the rich, we do much less than other countries for those in poverty. However, the data tell a different story.

The government's Medical Expenditure Panel Survey (MEPS) tabulates health care spending for a sample of over 35,000 Americans. One of the variables included in the survey is household income relative to the poverty line.

When the data for 2002 (the latest survey year available) are extrapolated to the full noninstitutional population, one obtains these results for persons below the poverty line:

Number of Persons: 35.6 million

Total Spending: $106.3 billion

Per Capita Spending: $2,986

Next, look at data on per capita spending on health care in various countries, as compiled by the OECD. In 2002, per capita spending in Canada was $2,931, in France it was $2,736, in Germany it was $2,817, and in the United Kingdom it was $2,160. The United States spends more on the average poor person than those countries spend on the average person.

In fact, the MEPS data understate spending in the United States, in part, as it is limited to the noninstitutional population. Therefore, it excludes nursing home expenditures. When those are added in, the per capita spending in the United States on those in poverty will turn out to be higher.

Still, people who are above the poverty line receive much more medical care in the United States, right? Wrong. In the MEPS data, the per capita spending rate for people above the poverty line is $2,789, essentially the same as the rate for poor people. (Again, the MEPS data excludes spending on nursing homes, research and development, and other categories that show up in countries' national income accounts.)

If the United States does not lag in spending on health care for the poor, then this undermines one of the arguments for adopting a more European or Canadian style health care system. Our challenge is not to redirect resources toward the poor but to come up with better approaches for improving public health.

In Medicaid, we already have the sort of state-funded health care system for the poor that other countries provide for everyone. It is difficult to see how expanding that system to the middle class (as Howard Dean, among others, has proposed) will make the poor better off.

I believe that there are genuine problems with our health care system. Studies and anecdotal evidence suggest that the uninsured and the poor receive inferior care. But I do not believe that there are any easy answers. In particular, I fail to see how any fair-minded individual could conclude that we ought to increase government's role in health care finance. If the poor under Medicaid are not as well cared for as the rest of us under private systems, then government-funded health care would seem to be part of the problem, not the solution.

This should go in the joke section.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:38 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: This should go in the joke section.

your rebutal is what?

Your rebutal is no responce?

You have no rebutal to facts huh pal?

If you do refute it, instead of carrying on with how terrible your country is and how we should be like the broken down countries across the pond.

I'll buy you a one way ticket if you like. Pick a country!

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:54 am

ArnoldLayne wrote: Damn ! I havent missed you have I ? I knew it wouldnt be too long before you arrogance got the better of you . Just couldnt help yourself could you.

Well for a self proclaimed writer you must be a poor man ...it cant sell....what I've witnessed here is drivel, pretensious, posturing drivel at that. I recommend you get your self a proper job and leave the writing to those that can make it readable. If you get lonely after thrashing about here there are one or two sites I can recommend that will welcome you with open arms.

billynomates.com

arroganttwat.com

What you have to realise is, if you decide to avail a community with your company, it is only polite, that after an introduction, you join in conversation and respect the members and their views. Its what we call, in a civilised society, good manners.

Without them the world is a lonely place. Good luck

:-3 He didn't do any more or less then the ones who participated......

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:01 am

BTS wrote: your rebutal is what?

Your rebutal is no responce?

You have no rebutal to facts huh pal?

If you do refute it, instead of carrying on with how terrible your country is and how we should be like the broken down countries across the pond.

I'll buy you a one way ticket if you like. Pick a country!

Life Baby!

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:02 am

ArnoldLayne wrote: I disagree. He rubbished peoples ideas and refered to us in the forum as turds

There was bantering all around:wah:

he was ganged up on as well.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:26 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: :-3 He didn't do any more or less then the ones who participated......Wow! you really do have your own interpretation for everything, don't you, Stupid? If it doesn't fit your prefab world it just isn't true, I guess.

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:27 am

ArnoldLayne wrote: Hey ! Im all for banter. And Im all for a forum with disagreement, it would be a dull place without it. It depends though on how you handle dissagreement and how you treat a fellow member when you disagree. Good manners is usually a better avenue than trolling and name calling.

Any "Ganging up" is inevitable when one member decides to go down the route of insulting long standing and respected members.

I think h was cordial to you in the beginning and lets face it, it takes two to Tango

and a few to Slam!;)

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:28 am

Accountable wrote: Wow! you really do have your own interpretation for everything, don't you, Stupid? If it doesn't fit your prefab world it just isn't true, I guess.

Don't you hire day workers?

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:32 am

High Threshold wrote: The U.S. government has been conducting such risks by employing the CIA in close to a hundred such assassinations (and deposing) of international leaders (both democratic and otherwise) since their first operation Ã¢â‚¬Å“TP AJAXÃ¢â‚¬ in 1953.

Olaf Palme was a thorn in the side of the U.S. as we were a living example of true democratic principles and the sharing of wealth to all citizens while taking care of everyone with regards to income, housing, medical cares, freedom (speech, expression and movement), paid holidays (six weeks each year), racial equality, etc. The United States was (and is) far behind, despite their claim to the contrary, although since they assassinated Olaf Palme, our standards have sunk notably.

Furthermore, American, Vietnam deserters were allowed refuge in Sweden and their reports and experiences of life in Sweden were causing grave disconcert in the U.S. propaganda machine with serious risk of the American population demanding fairer treatment of their own government.

* If youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re interested in learning more about Sweden read, Sweden: Prototype of Modern Society by R. F. Tomasson. I apologise for some rather Ã¢â‚¬Å“dryÃ¢â‚¬ reading but the book is quite thorough.

KOOL.......... The GOOD ol US of A killed your Prime Minister.

Facts mam only facts.............

Do you have any facts to back up your wild claim???And not from some America hating site.

If so, pop em out for all to see.

What about the guy convicted for it? Who confessed and was identified by Mrs Palme, Olof's wife.

It was overturned because they could not find the gun........

Additional evidence against Pettersson surfaced in the late 1990s, mostly stemming from various petty criminals who had altered their stories but also from a confession made by Pettersson. The chief prosecutor, Agneta Blidberg, considered re-opening the case. But she acknowledged that a confession alone would not be sufficient, saying: "He must say something about the weapon because the appeals court set that condition in its ruling. That is the only technical evidence that could be cited as a reason to re-open the case." While the legal case against Pettersson therefore remains closed, the police file on the investigation cannot be closed until both murder weapon and murderer are found. Christer Pettersson died on September 29, 2004.

I guese you like this idea better though:

P2 and Irangate

According to controversial American political activist and conspiracy theorist, Lyndon LaRouche, Olof Palme's murder was related to this arms-trade operation: "The earlier discovery of documents in the police search of the MalmÃƒ¶ premises of Karl-Erik Schmitz, and Prime Minister Palme's concern with those arms-trafficking matters, were among the prime known evidences of motive for what must have been a carefully prearranged insertion of an assassin at the relevant moment of opportunity." [1]

Italian magazine Panorama revealed that president Francesco Cossiga had sent a letter to prime minister Giulio Andreotti after having reviewed the content of interviews between RAI journalist Ennio Remondino and former CIA agents Richard Brenneke and Ibrahim Razin. President Cossiga was concerned by the statements, and said: "If the government were to think that the information had any basis, I think that it should inform the judiciary authority and the Parliamentary Commission on Massacres and, at the level of the bilateral relations, the relevant authorities in the U.S.A. and in Sweden." Otherwise, the journalists who published the information without previously thoroughly checking its validity, should be punished.

According to those sources, three days before Olof Palme's death, Licio Gelli, member of P2 freemasonic lodge, had sent a telegram to Philip Guarino, at that time an important member of the Republican circle around George H.W. Bush. This telegram said: "Tell our friend that the Swedish palm will be felled." CIA agent Razin claims that the National Security Archives have the text of the telegram. According to him, P2 would have been interested by Olof Palme's murder because "Sweden was one of the main protagonists of the illegal weapons traffic at the time of the Iran-Iraq war when Palme was prime minister and thus Palme was surely aware of what was happening." [2]. According to an interview of Gene "Chip" Tatum by "Free Republic", Palme was assassinated because he refused an arms-trade [3]. The arms trade would have been part of the agreement reached during the October Surprise.

But then there is this idea too:

On February 21, 1986 - a week before he died - Palme made the keynote address to the Swedish People's Parliament against Apartheid which was held in Stockholm and was attended by hundreds of anti-apartheid sympathizers as well as leaders and officials from the ANC (Oliver Tambo) and the Anti-Apartheid Movement. Over ten years later, in September 1996, Colonel Eugene De Kock, a former South African police officer, gave evidence to the Supreme Court in Pretoria. Col De Kock alleged that the Swedish Prime Minister was shot and killed in 1986 because "Mr Palme strongly opposed the apartheid regime and Sweden made substantial contributions to the ANC." De Kock also named those alleged to be responsible for the murder: another former South African police officer - turned superspy - Craig Williamson; Swedish mercenary Bertil Wedin (living in Northern Cyprus since 1985); and Anthony White, a former Rhodesian soldier with links to the South African security services. As a result, Swedish police investigators visited South Africa in October 1996 but drew a blank.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:37 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: Don't you hire day workers?

Is that a bad thing/

Or should they not work?

I use documented day workers at least once a week and they are quite happy to work too.

Your point is?

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:40 am

BTS wrote: Is that a bad thing/

Or should they not work?

I use documented day workers at least once a week and they are quite happy to work too.

Your point is?

lmao!

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:41 am

A study last year by the University of California at Berkeley - disputed by Wal-Mart - concluded that California taxpayers spend $32-million a year providing health care to Wal-Mart workers and $54-million a year in other assistance such as free school lunches and food stamps.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/25/State ... ow_t.shtml

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:44 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: Don't you hire day workers?No. What's your point?

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:50 am

Accountable wrote: No. What's your point?

........

I was answered

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:51 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: A study last year by the University of California at Berkeley - disputed by Wal-Mart - concluded that California taxpayers spend $32-million a year providing health care to Wal-Mart workers and $54-million a year in other assistance such as free school lunches and food stamps.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/25/State/Lured_employers_now_t.shtml
People accept the wage they're offered. You'd rather they were completely unemployed so we could pay for them altogether? You'd rather Wal-mart close its doors?

No, you'd rather force a company you have no responsibility for to pay money you don't make to people for whom you hold contempt because you think they can't do it any other way.

Wal-mart employees - and anybody else eligible - get food stamps because they qualify for food stamps. It's there so they take it. If it weren't available, they'd find another way.

*I'll bet a dollar you think they'd turn to theft*

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:52 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: ........

I was answeredOf course. You asked a question; I answered it. You won't show me the same courtesy?

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:53 am

Accountable wrote: People accept the wage they're offered. You'd rather they were completely unemployed so we could pay for them altogether? You'd rather Wal-mart close its doors?

No, you'd rather force a company you have no responsibility for to pay money you don't make to people for whom you hold contempt because you think they can't do it any other way.

Wal-mart employees - and anybody else eligible - get food stamps because they qualify for food stamps. It's there so they take it. If it weren't available, they'd find another way.

*I'll bet a dollar you think they'd turn to theft*
You didn't read it did you?

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:03 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: A study last year by the University of California at Berkeley - disputed by Wal-Mart - concluded that California taxpayers spend $32-million a year providing health care to Wal-Mart workers and $54-million a year in other assistance such as free school lunches and food stamps.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/25/State/Lured_employers_now_t.shtml

So you want health care FREE for all and yet when people use what is at hand it is a BAD thing because Walmart is scewing it's employees?

Last tyme I looked Walmart was not holding a gun to their head to work there or do you know something I don't?

So you site this problem in that these people are having to use medicaid to live on, right?

BUTTT in a prior post you agree how the Good Ol US of A does what?

Oh ya this:

"I might be wrong but inthe US if you can't afford medical services they seem to leave you to die".

These figure you are using are only in relation to Walmart employees, Right?

Why don't you find out how much the Good Ol US of A throws out there on top of all this mony and then tell us again:

"I might be wrong but inthe US if you can't afford medical services they seem to leave you to die".

Yes you JUST MIGHT be Wrong!

I know you would hate to admit that your country was VERY giving country after all.....

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:13 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: You didn't read it did you?My apologies. I trusted your synopsis. I should've trusted your name.

Okay, I've read it. Doesn't change a thing. Wal-mart isn't doing anything illegal. Florida gov't apparently didn't do a good business deal. Doesn't make what I said any less true. If you're a FL resident, I recommend getting whoever's giving away the farm out of office.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:29 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote:

........

I was answered
Accountable wrote: Of course. You asked a question; I answered it. You won't show me the same courtesy?I guess not.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:21 am

Accountable wrote: I guess not.

ACC the answer is........................

There is no answer other than:

The bad ol US of A and their wasssskaly big companies and how we never give anything to our poor down-troden citizens. We only give out hand outs to the big boys and not the citizens that REALLY need it.

Yes ACC the answer is this........... You live in the most corrupt country that has ever existed. When it is brought down to a 3rd world slum and ALL are equal in the terms of property and there are no big business around, all the land is returned to nature, only the goverment owns land etc........

THEN will we ALL be happy.....

Can't wait for that day to come.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:29 am

So I guess I'd better get busy making lots of money so I can qualify for corporate welfare?? :-3

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:07 am

Accountable wrote: So I guess I'd better get busy making lots of money so I can qualify for corporate welfare?? :-3
Maybe you should cry around about that......

Pay people a decent wage, considering they are taking real jobs away.

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:12 am

BTS wrote: ACC the answer is........................

You're funny!

There is no answer other than:

The bad ol US of A and their wasssskaly big companies and how we never give anything to our poor down-troden citizens. We only give out hand outs to the big boys and not the citizens that REALLY need it.

Yes ACC the answer is this........... You live in the most corrupt country that has ever existed. When it is brought down to a 3rd world slum and ALL are equal in the terms of property and there are no big business around, all the land is returned to nature, only the goverment owns land etc........

THEN will we ALL be happy.....

Can't wait for that day to come.

You said it.:p

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:14 am

Stupid Cowboy Tricks

He didn't do any more or less then the ones who participated......

High Threshold wrote: - "Compulsory sharing"?

- "mutually exclusive with freedom"?

- "a communist principle"?

Eh? You have absolutely no clue of what you're talking about, do you.

This is the post by High Threshold that changed what had otherwise been an intelligent and interesting thread. The mood just thickened as soon as this was iterated. Although I didn't read it until a few hours after it had been posted, it came across as simply rude. The guy appeared to be intelligent and then hanged it all on that one sentence.

Apart from my introductory thread, this is the first thread I have posted on the Forum. I am very dismayed that it was used for a lot of sour posting. But I don't own the thread.

I can't stop anyone from saying anything they like, only the Administrators can do that. Personally, I would just ignore anyone who tried to put me down. Thus far, I can happily say that no one on this forum has tried. BUT THAT'S NOT AN EXCUSE FOR ANYONE TO START TRYING NOW THAT I'VE SAID THAT!!!:D

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:18 am

OpenMind wrote: This is the post by High Threshold that changed what had otherwise been an intelligent and interesting thread. The mood just thickened as soon as this was iterated. Although I didn't read it until a few hours after it had been posted, it came across as simply rude. The guy appeared to be intelligent and then hanged it all on that one sentence.

Apart from my introductory thread, this is the first thread I have posted on the Forum. I am very dismayed that it was used for a lot of sour posting. But I don't own the thread.

I can't stop anyone from saying anything they like, only the Administrators can do that. Personally, I would just ignore anyone who tried to put me down. Thus far, I can happily say that no one on this forum has tried. BUT THAT'S NOT AN EXCUSE FOR ANYONE TO START TRYING NOW THAT I'VE SAID THAT!!!:D

Is English his first language?

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:20 am

go to

http://judicial-inc.biz/wal_mart_health_care.htm

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:27 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: Maybe you should cry around about that......

Pay people a decent wage, considering they are taking real jobs away.

Ya kinda like all the US car makers jobs going out the window partly because they can't pay for all the benifits that the Unions forced down their throats years ago........... Yet the Asian automakers with plants here have less extensive health plans, a younger work force and basically no health care obligations for retirees, meaning GM will probably still pay thousands more in health care costs per vehicle than Asian automakers.

But then that is part of the BIG plan huh?

Break the big dogs with absurd requirments and demands with any means possible.

General Motors Corp. said Monday it would cut 30,000 hourly jobs and close or scale back operations at about a dozen U.S. and Canadian locations in a bid to save $7 billion a year and halt huge losses in its core North American auto operations.

Now those are REAL JOBS that are gone........

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:30 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: Is English his first language?

I would take an educated guess that High Threshold is a Swede. However, he has a good command of English. He is obviously quite intelligent and educated too. I do not believe, by studying his posts, that there has been a misuse of English due to ignorance on his part.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:31 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: You said it.:p

I knew you would agree............

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:36 am

BTS wrote: I knew you would agree............

and you are full of Bologna:yh_bye

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:38 am

BTS wrote: Ya kinda like all the US car makers jobs going out the window partly because they can't pay for all the benifits that the Unions forced down their throats years ago........... Yet the Asian automakers with plants here have less extensive health plans, a younger work force and basically no health care obligations for retirees, meaning GM will probably still pay thousands more in health care costs per vehicle than Asian automakers.

But then that is part of the BIG plan huh?

Break the big dogs with absurd requirments and demands with any means possible.

General Motors Corp. said Monday it would cut 30,000 hourly jobs and close or scale back operations at about a dozen U.S. and Canadian locations in a bid to save $7 billion a year and halt huge losses in its core North American auto operations.

Now those are REAL JOBS that are gone........

You believe all that propoganda too......dontcha!

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:02 pm

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: You believe all that propoganda too......dontcha!

Yah I do believe you would love to see Walmart fail and close down........by doing just this:

The South Austin Coalition, along with the United Food and Commercial Workers union, Jobs with Justice and several citywide groups, pressed the Chicago City Council to guarantee that Wal-Mart would provide workers at the new store with living wages, health insurance, retirement plans, and the right to unionize.

HUH??? What happened to FREE ENTERPRISE in our country? When did the gov get the power of telling companies what they had to pay other than minimum wage? When?

Some more assine demands:

Such as, who they can hire:

Michael Smith, a 39-year-old who has lived in Austin for about 11 years, just wants Wal-Mart to make sure those $10-an-hour jobs go to folks living in the neighborhood. "Management has to hire from within the community," he said while enjoying an afternoon block party this summer at Chicago and Latrobe avenues. "That's the problem; they always hire someone from Oak Park Ã¢â‚¬¦ and bring someone in from outside the neighborhood.

"You gonna bring it here, then hire here," he added. "You want to take our money, hire some of these people over here."

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:12 pm

BTS wrote: Yah I do believe you would love to see Walmart fail and close down........by doing just this:

The South Austin Coalition, along with the United Food and Commercial Workers union, Jobs with Justice and several citywide groups, pressed the Chicago City Council to guarantee that Wal-Mart would provide workers at the new store with living wages, health insurance, retirement plans, and the right to unionize.

HUH??? What happened to FREE ENTERPRISE in our country? When did the gov get the power of telling companies what they had to pay other than minimum wage? When?

Some more assine demands:

Such as, who they can hire:

Michael Smith, a 39-year-old who has lived in Austin for about 11 years, just wants Wal-Mart to make sure those $10-an-hour jobs go to folks living in the neighborhood. "Management has to hire from within the community," he said while enjoying an afternoon block party this summer at Chicago and Latrobe avenues. "That's the problem; they always hire someone from Oak Park Ã¢â‚¬¦ and bring someone in from outside the neighborhood.

"You gonna bring it here, then hire here," he added. "You want to take our money, hire some of these people over here."

There is nothing so stupid as the educated man if you get him off the thing he was educated in. :-2

-BTS-

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:18 pm

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: go to

http://judicial-inc.biz/wal_mart_health_care.htm

Wow you show your colors. Not only is it a Walmart hit site but it is MAINLY a Anti Jew site you link to.

I love this one about Israel and the so called "BLACK OP" (Mossad)

Do you believe this hog wash? You might want to link to a little more SANE site next time..

The story of the Archille Lauro

Let us ' Never forget' ..Leon Klinghoffer

Arab hijackers threw this 69 yr old Israeli , and his wheelchair, into the ocean

I can hear the wheelchair clinking in the props

But wait -- Was the Archille Lauro another Israeli Ã¢â‚¬ËœBlack OpÃ¢â‚¬â„¢

SUMMARY: --- The Mossad in a attempt to sway world opinion in favor of Israel or provoke a armed reaction constantly stages events and blames Arabs. In this episode the Israelis use Mossad operative Arabs to hijack a crusie ship.

The crowning scene Ã¢â‚¬“ played over and over Ã¢â‚¬“ is where the Mossad Arabs throw a 69 yr old Israeli in his wheelchair over the side. Oddly the Mossad let the terrorist alone ?

Real version

The hi-jacking of the Italian cruise ship the Achille Lauro by "Palestinian terrorists" was later reliably reported by former IDF arms dealer Ari Ben-Menashe in his 1992 book, Profits of War: Inside the Secret U.S.-Israeli Arms Network, to have been ordered and funded by Mossad.

Ben-Menashe revealed that Israeli intelligence organizations regularly engaged in "black operations," espionage activity designed to portray Palestinians and others in the worst possible light. "An example," wrote Ben-Menashe, "is the case of the 'Palestinian' attack on the cruise ship Achille Lauro in 1985. That was, in fact, an Israeli 'black' propaganda operation to show what a deadly, cutthroat bunch the Palestinians were. " According to Ben-Menashe, Israeli spymasters arranged the attack through "Abu'l Abbas, who, to follow such orders was receiving millions from Israeli intelligence officers posing as Sicilian dons. Abbas . . . gathered a team to attack the cruise ship. The team was told to make it bad, to show the world what lay in store for other unsuspecting citizens if Palestinian demands were not met.

As the world knows, the group picked on an elderly American Jewish man in a wheelchair, killed him, and threw his body overboard. They made their point. But for Israel, it was the best kind of anti- Palestinian propaganda." It should be noted that in April 1996, Abbas returned to Gaza and in a show of support for Yasser Arafat apologized for the hi-jacking and the killing of the American Jewish passenger Leon Klinghoffer without mentioning him by name, saying, "The hi-jacking was a mistake, and there were no orders to kill civilians." Abbas made no mention of Mossad involvement in the hi-jacking according to the April 23, 1996 Associated Press report.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:20 pm

[quote=High Threshold]Ã¢â‚¬A pretentious ass.Ã¢â‚¬? Tsk, tsk! That wasnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t a very nice thing to say to me, even for a racist lesbian like you ]arsehole is not only wrong on both counts, but is clearly a troll. as for walmart, i have not read entire thread, but i was their loss prevention officer for a long time, and they are total greedheads. i saw how they treated their employees, it was sad. (i was a separate entity, they couldn't abuse me)

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:20 pm

A live poll http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10283253

Costs to Taxpayers

Download the Wal-Mart and Cost to Taxpayers fact sheet - PDF

Your tax dollars pay for Wal-Mart's greed

The estimated total amount of federal assistance for which Wal-Mart employees were eligible in 2004 was $2.5 billion. [Ã¢â‚¬Å“HarperÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Index,Ã¢â‚¬ HarperÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Magazine, Vol. 310, No. 1858, 3/2005]

One 200-employee Wal-Mart store may cost federal taxpayers $420,750 per year. This cost comes from the following, on average:
$36,000 a year for free and reduced lunches for just 50 qualifying Wal-Mart families.

$42,000 a year for low-income housing assistance.

$125,000 a year for federal tax credits and deductions for low-income families.

$100,000 a year for the additional expenses for programs for students.

$108,000 a year for the additional federal health care costs of moving into state children's health insurance programs (S-CHIP)

$9,750 a year for the additional costs for low income energy assistance.

Your tax dollars subsidize Wal-Mart's growth

The first ever national report on Wal-Mart subsidies documented at least $1 billion in subsidies from state and local governments.

A Wal-Mart official once stated that Ã¢â‚¬Å“it is commonÃ¢â‚¬ for the company to request subsidies Ã¢â‚¬Å“in about one-third of all [retail] projects.Ã¢â‚¬ This would suggest that over a thousand Wal-Mart stores have been subsidized. [Ã¢â‚¬Å“Shopping For Subsidies: How Wal-Mart Uses Taxpayer Money to Finance Its Never-Ending Growth,Ã¢â‚¬ Good Job First, May 2004]

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:46 pm

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: Costs to Taxpayers

Download the Wal-Mart and Cost to Taxpayers fact sheet - PDF

Your tax dollars pay for Wal-Mart's greed

The estimated total amount of federal assistance for which Wal-Mart employees were eligible in 2004 was $2.5 billion. [Ã¢â‚¬Å“HarperÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Index,Ã¢â‚¬ HarperÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Magazine, Vol. 310, No. 1858, 3/2005]

One 200-employee Wal-Mart store may cost federal taxpayers $420,750 per year. This cost comes from the following, on average:
$36,000 a year for free and reduced lunches for just 50 qualifying Wal-Mart families.

$42,000 a year for low-income housing assistance.

$125,000 a year for federal tax credits and deductions for low-income families.

$100,000 a year for the additional expenses for programs for students.

$108,000 a year for the additional federal health care costs of moving into state children's health insurance programs (S-CHIP)

$9,750 a year for the additional costs for low income energy assistance.

Your tax dollars subsidize Wal-Mart's growth

The first ever national report on Wal-Mart subsidies documented at least $1 billion in subsidies from state and local governments.

A Wal-Mart official once stated that Ã¢â‚¬Å“it is commonÃ¢â‚¬ for the company to request subsidies Ã¢â‚¬Å“in about one-third of all [retail] projects.Ã¢â‚¬ This would suggest that over a thousand Wal-Mart stores have been subsidized. [Ã¢â‚¬Å“Shopping For Subsidies: How Wal-Mart Uses Taxpayer Money to Finance Its Never-Ending Growth,Ã¢â‚¬ Good Job First, May 2004]

OK you want the facts????????????

Health Care Coverage

Fact: Our health care plan insures full-time and part-time associates once eligible. As of today, 620,000 associates have signed up for health insurance coverage in a Wal-Mart sponsored plan. In January, Wal-Mart will provide insurance to more than 1 million people and offer up to 18 different plans. Coverage will be available for as little as $11 per month for individuals and 30 cents per day for children - no matter how many children an associate has.

Unlike many plans, after the first year, the Wal-Mart medical plan has no lifetime maximum for most expenses, protecting our associates against catastrophic loss and financial ruin.

Associates enrolled in the AssociatesÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ Medical Plan also have access to world class health care at the Mayo Clinic, Stanford University Hospital, Johns Hopkins University Hospital and many other health care facilities, all without insurance approval.

Fact: Wal-Mart offers affordable health care coverage to both its full and part-time associates. We work hard to offer good, affordable coverage to our people. Historically, Wal-Mart has paid about two-thirds of the cost of the Associates' Medical Plan. As of today, 620,000 associates have signed up for health insurance coverage in a Wal-Mart sponsored plan. In January, Wal-Mart will provide insurance to more than 1 million people and offer up to 18 different plans. Coverage will be available for as little as $11 per month for individuals and 30 cents per day for children - no matter how many children an associate has.

Unlike many plans, after the first year, the Wal-Mart medical plan has no lifetime maximum for most expenses, protecting our associates against catastrophic loss and financial ruin. We have different deductibles to meet individual needs.

Associates also have access to world class healthcare at the Mayo Clinic, Stanford University Hospital, Johns Hopkins University Hospital and many other leading health care facilities without insurance approval.

In recent years, Wal-Mart has contributed 4 percent of an associate's eligible pay to the combined Profit Sharing & 401(k) plan. Our hourly associates, just like our management and executive associates, receive bonuses and other incentives for helping the company achieve its goals. In FYE 2005, we spent $4.2 billion on benefits for our associates.

Fact: 1.3 million Associates work at Wal-Mart in the U.S. The majority of Wal-Mart's hourly store associates in the U.S. work full-time. That's well above the 20 - 40 percent typically found in the retail industry. We are a leading employer of Hispanic Americans, with more than 139,000 Hispanic associates. Wal-Mart is one of the leading employers of African Americans, with more than 208,000 African-American associates. More than 220,000 of our associates are 55 or older. We employ more than 775,000 women.

Fact: Wal-Mart supports communities financially and provides hundreds of jobs. Our property taxes, sales tax revenue and community giving help fund basic services like police and fire departments and schools, and support for invaluable charities. The typical Supercenter raises or gives $30,000 to $50,000 a year to local charitable needs ranging from youth programs to literacy councils. In fact, Wal-Mart is the largest corporate cash contributor in America. In fiscal year ending 2005, Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. and the Wal-Mart & SAM'S CLUB Foundation contributed more than $170 million to support communities and local non-profit organizations. More than 90 percent of cash donations from Wal-Mart Stores and the Wal-Mart & SAM'S CLUB Foundation target local communities. ThatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s $18,000 an hour or $5 a second. In 2004, Wal-Mart collected more than $11.2 billion in state and local sales taxes and paid millions in property taxes.

A UBS Warburg study found that Wal-Mart grocery prices are 17 to 20 percent lower than other supermarkets, which has the greatest benefit for a communityÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s low-income families. A recent independent economic study by Global Insight, Inc. demonstrated the net postive impact Wal-Mart has on communities. The study showed Wal-Mart saved working families over $2,300 per household, per year.

Studies show that new businesses spring up near Wal-Marts and existing stores flourish as they take advantage of the increased customer flow to and from our stores. Drive by any Wal-Mart store and count the number of businesses operating nearby, many are independent local businesses or locally owned franchises. The most definitive look at this issue, by Dr. Emek Basker at the University of Missouri, showed average increases of 50 retail jobs in communities five years after the entry of Wal-Mart.

Fact: In 2004, more than 38,000 Wal-Mart associates told us they have served in the military. Currently, approximately 4,000 associates are on military leave. Wal-Mart is a loyal supporter of men and women in the armed forces. Specifically, we support our Associates who perform military service. For example, we proudly offer continuation of many benefits, including health benefits, for the duration of an AssociateÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s military leave. We also offer supplemental pay, for the duration of military leave, to Associates called to active duty in an area that is subject to Ã¢â‚¬Å“hostile fireÃ¢â‚¬ or Ã¢â‚¬Å“imminent danger,Ã¢â‚¬ as defined by Presidential Executive Order.

Last year, Wal-Mart partnered with the Veterans of Foreign Wars Foundation (VFW) to provide more than 900,000 Communications Kits that included free phone cards, writing paper, envelopes, and more so that servicemen and women could stay in touch with loved ones. The Company also made it possible for customers nationwide to send messages through in-store kiosks to support our military men and women. We have provided millions of dollars in financial aid to military family-support organizations and worked with manufacturers to supply clothing for the wounded and special-need items for the troops.

Wal-Mart donated $6 million to help build the World War II memorial in Washington D.C. while associates and customers raised an additional $8.5 million. In 2003, Wal-Mart was honored with the prestigious "Corporate Patriotism Award" sponsored by the Employer Support for Guard & Reserve (ESGR) and in 2004 honored with the Secretary of Defense Ã¢â‚¬Å“Employer Supports Freedom Award,Ã¢â‚¬ also sponsored by ESGR.

Fact: Seventy-six percent of our store management started in hourly positions. We believe in promoting from within and we walk the talk. We provide career opportunities for people who may never have dreamed of one day supervising a multi-million dollar department or a $100 million Supercenter.

Many associates will advance to careers in retail, but also to careers which support our core business: real estate, public policy, merchandising, logistics, information technology, marketing, advertising and more. We project we will create more than 100,000 new jobs this year in the United States.

Fact: Wal-Mart does not encourage our associates to apply for public assistance. We will be the first to acknowledge that health care is a tough issue... for us and for the country. Wal-Mart has helped 160,000 Americans leave the ranks of the uninsured. A survey of Wal-Mart associates showed more than 30% did not have health insurance before coming to work at Wal-Mart.

We work hard to keep our associate premiums affordable and think we are doing a pretty good job. In January, Wal-Mart will provide insurance to more than 1 million people and offer up to 18 different plans. Coverage is available for individuals for as little as $11 per month and 30 cents per day for children - no matter how many children an associate has.

Fact: The majority of Wal-MartÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s hourly store associates in the United States work full-time. That is well above the 20 - 40 percent typically found in the retail industry. Our average hourly wage for regular full-time associates in the U.S. is $9.68 an hour, almost double the federal minimum wage. Wal-MartÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s average full-time wage in urban areas is slightly higher than the national average. For example: Chicago, $10.69; Austin, TX, $10.69; Washington D.C./Baltimore, $10.08; Atlanta, $10.80; and in Los Angeles, $9.99.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:51 pm

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: A live poll http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10283253

Americans split over Wal-Mart

Polls, conducted by anti-Wal-Mart group, show most have favorable view

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10283165/