Perceptions of Criminality....

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:40 am

YZGI;1374307 wrote: It didn't matter where it happened. You took an abused dog thread and try to turn it into an America needs to count there homeless thread. Same as the Ireland thread about the abused prisoner. Same as a lot of threads. It just gets tedious. Hey Wisey.... Fingers crossed and all that nonsense, I am very possibly touching down In Philli next year. Going to see my quaking friend..... we could meet up... smoke weed, get arrested, cause trouble

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:11 am

oscar;1374313 wrote: Hey Wisey.... Fingers crossed and all that nonsense, I am very possibly touching down In Philli next year. Going to see my quaking friend..... we could meet up... smoke weed, get arrested, cause trouble

Don't you know we beat our prisoners, they get no phone calls, everyone sleeps on the streets except for our soldiers whom we send to every country and galaxy to kill without regard. Thats after we nuke the Japanese--Oops we did do that..:-3

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:22 am

YZGI;1374316 wrote: Don't you know we beat our prisoners, they get no phone calls, everyone sleeps on the streets except for our soldiers whom we send to every country and galaxy to kill without regard. Thats after we nuke the Japanese--Oops we did do that..:-3

Yeah.... God Bless America :yh_rotfl

Post by **Chloe_88** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:41 am

Lets just say how would you punish a person who mistreated any animal.

My response would be: Do exactly the some to the person. If the person starved an animal, well make them starve aswell etc.

I have 4 cats, dozen birds, few snakes and 2 spiders.

ALL of them have been rehomed to me. No I don't believe in breeding animals, thats why my animals (well the ones that can be) are castrated.

I don't buy products that have been tested on animals (or from companies that test on animals).

I do not wear fur, not even fake fur.

Before someone thinks i'm a mad vegan woman who campaigns for animals:wah::

yes i do eat some meat but i'm carefull where I buy it, aswell with eggs i buy them from the local farmer where you can see the chickens running around having fun.

So back on topic: Punish the animal abuser in the exact same way as they have abused the animal!

Post by **spot** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:10 am

Do you know any country in the world that does what you propose, Chloe?

If, as I suspect, you don't, why do you suppose it's never been adopted as law anywhere?

Post by **spot** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:15 am

oscar;1374311 wrote: The picture was posted with no background Information because none was needed.I think we reached agreement that the dog in the photo may have been injured accidentally and not on purpose - the trial's due to begin in four weeks to decide the matter. How can you possibly say the background isn't needed, when your opening post asks "what would you suggest for the bastard who did this?". Surely the matter of how and why the bastard did it has to be understood before the question can be answered. That's why I looked up Firu's story for you.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:25 am

spot;1374393 wrote: Do you know any country in the world that does what you propose, Chloe?

If, as I suspect, you don't, why do you suppose it's never been adopted as law anywhere?Because Bastards run all the countries? Just a guess!

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:06 am

So, the dog in the OP is just an example of the kind of treatment many receive all over the world.

Humans can be terribly cruel. To dogs, cats, whales, and especially other humans.

The dog is just an example.

PETA calls for ethical treatment of animals.

If Humans behaved ethically, always, we would not have such discussions.

Sadly, we are members of the cruelest species on the planet.

Whether it was thoughtless, ignorant behavior, or deliberate cruelty, the result for that dog was the same.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:50 am

spot;1374394 wrote: I think we reached agreement that the dog in the photo may have been injured accidentally and not on purpose - the trial's due to begin in four weeks to decide the matter. How can you possibly say the background isn't needed, when your opening post asks "what would you suggest for the bastard who did this?". Surely the matter of how and why the bastard did it has to be understood before the question can be answered. That's why I looked up Firu's story for you.

Let's spell this out for you Spot as you seem to have some trouble grasping what I have said. PETA send me news, updates and campaigns via e mail every day. There-fore I could find anything up to a dozen a day in my Inbox. I do not have the hours to spare to sit there and read reams and reams of background Info. What I do Is select the worst at sight and re-post them on facebook for others to join the campaign.

With the pic In the OP, I did not read the background Info at the time....

Now... Your claim that the US should address the homeless situation rather than waste resources on dogs such as this........... What an embittered little soul you are? Where this argument falls over, Is that many homeless are In that situation through bad choices... the animal has no choice.

Or your claim that 'designer dogs' thin out the wild dog gene pool. Not that I have seen too many poodles roaming the Savannah with the wild dogs.

What disturbs with people like you Is the selfish Intent of the world you live In. You have littered this forum with posts like these stating humans have more right on this planet than say a dog,

Every creature Is here for a reason and every creature has as much right to this planet as you. Don't give me your old crap about humans being the more Intelligent or dominant species because had It not have been for what Is believed to be an asteroid hitting the earth, Dinosaurs would still be the dominant species. All species evolve, man has just happened to evolve faster.

The biggest and most destructive virus and disease on the planet Is man.

Post by **spot** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:57 am

oscar;1374406 wrote: With the pic In the OP, I did not read the background Info at the time....That's a bit like me saying "I stopped reading your post at this point".

I stopped reading your post at this point.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:05 am

spot;1374410 wrote: That's a bit like me saying "I stopped reading your post at this point".

I stopped reading your post at this point.

That Is merely Spot speak for ' I have no answer'.

Spot speak

Post by **spot** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:17 am

So, have you yet discovered that you can't actually put me on ignore?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:07 am

spot;1374419 wrote: So, have you yet discovered that you can't actually put me on ignore?

Sorry, did you say something?

Post by **Chloe_88** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:01 am

spot;1374393 wrote: Do you know any country in the world that does what you propose, Chloe?

If, as I suspect, you don't, why do you suppose it's never been adopted as law anywhere?

No spot I do not know of any country that has adopted this type of law. But i'm not saying any country would. It's what I would do to the person that inflicted injuries to an animal.

+ i'm annoyed with the fact that there really arn't any punishments in the Netherlands on animal cruelty. Police bring you in, give you a cuppa, slap you on the wrist and tell you not to do it again.

Again my point was: what would I do to this person, not what would the law do or should the law do.

Post by **spot** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:18 am

Chloe_88;1374503 wrote: Again my point was: what would I do to this person, not what would the law do or should the law do.
And you're aware that you'd be locked up for a very long time if you did it? I'm just wondering what circumstances would bring you to face such a long jail term.

Post by **Chloe_88** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:52 am

spot;1374509 wrote: And you're aware that you'd be locked up for a very long time if you did it? I'm just wondering what circumstances would bring you to face such a long jail term.

That is not the point. But if you want to turn this into that: why should I be punished if I would do such a thing, and why should the animal abuser walk without punishment? (remember, animal abusers don't get punished in my country)

But you asked why would I do something like that? because the Ba***** that would do something like that deserves it

Post by **spot** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:02 pm

Chloe_88;1374555 wrote: But you asked why would I do something like that? because the Ba***** that would do something like that deserves itIt is, of course, your prerogative. There's no prevention in the legal system, a man's got to do what a man's got to do. The law merely provides penalties after the event. For what you're proposing I'd estimate it comes to around eight years.

Post by **Chloe_88** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:07 pm

spot;1374558 wrote: It is, of course, your prerogative. There's no prevention in the legal system, a man's got to do what a man's got to do. The law merely provides penalties after the event. For what you're proposing I'd estimate it comes to around eight years.

I'd rather do the 8 years then sit on my ar** and do nothing, but there you go. Most people would feel the same way if the case was about a child, but an abused animal? many don't give a sh**.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:35 am

Ahso!;1374268 wrote: Out of curiosity, what happened to those guys after that horse-whipping you gave them.

One went on to join the army, and ended up in Lt Calley's platoon.

One joined the ASPCA.

The third joined the Miami Police Dept.

One out of three ain't bad.

And I didn't use a horse.

It was a branch from a Live Oak.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:46 am

Chloe_88;1374559 wrote: I'd rather do the 8 years then sit on my ar** and do nothing, but there you go. Most people would feel the same way if the case was about a child, but an abused animal? many don't give a sh**.I guess you're active in animal rights. Don't you think getting your jollies and then locked up as recompense for one event would flush all that work down the drain and compromise your credibility going forward? If abused animals could communicate, as some can (human animals) most would ask to maintain your cool and keep up the good fight, like countless people try to do? Do you disagree?

Post by **spot** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:56 am

There are certainly people in my home town who have, for example, done time for setting IEDs under staff cars at the local University claiming they were deterring experimenters from using live research animals. That seems similar to what's been discussed.

Post by **spot** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:43 am

spot;1374224 wrote: It's a sterile, compassionless world we would live in when threads like this about an injured pet dog can distract attention from the 46 million US residents taking food stampsTo expand on that, my copy of the Harrison Daily Times arrived a few minutes ago. I quote from a main article:Distribution to families that are income eligible will start at 8 a.m. Wednesday, Nov. 9, and continue until all foods have been handed out [...] Foster children, households receiving food stamps or who meet income guidelines are eligible. Weekly incomes to determine eligibility are: 1 person, $273; 2 people, $368; 3 people, $464; 4 people, $559; 5 people, $655; 6 people, $750; 7 people, $846; 8 people, $941; add $96 for each additional person.

And the USA has 46 million people surviving on food stamps through volunteer programs like this across the country, and you're perturbed by the possibly accidental harm incurred by a Bull Mastiff?

Those are maximum incomes, by the way, not averages. I'd guess the mean is a lot less than half the maximum.

Your sense of priority is scandalous.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:04 am

Why don't you begin another thread on the topic, Spot? This one is about a very different subject. I'd think of all people of a forum, it's owner would respect the rights of its members to discuss, without deliberate interference, whatever they chose to within the TOS.

There's no question the thread was a disaster from the get-go due to the lack of willingness of the OP to ensure accuracy of the photo and appeared to be looking to incite unnecessary emotion from members, but it seems to me you can just take the thing down or lock it if you determine it to be outside your vision for the forum.

Some people are more interested in the rights of species' other than their own. that's their right, you know. I agree with you that focusing on and working to solve the human dilemma would go much further in helping those of other species, but not everyone sees it that way. So what can you do? Let it go!

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:06 am

spot;1374915 wrote: To expand on that, my copy of the Harrison Daily Times arrived a few minutes ago. I quote from a main article:Distribution to families that are income eligible will start at 8 a.m. Wednesday, Nov. 9, and continue until all foods have been handed out [...] Foster children, households receiving food stamps or who meet income guidelines are eligible. Weekly incomes to determine eligibility are: 1 person, $273; 2 people, $368; 3 people, $464; 4 people, $559; 5 people, $655; 6 people, $750; 7 people, $846; 8 people, $941; add $96 for each additional person.

And the USA has 46 million people surviving on food stamps through volunteer programs like this across the country, and you're perturbed by the possibly accidental harm incurred by a Bull Mastiff?

Those are maximum incomes, by the way, not averages. I'd guess the mean is a lot less than half the maximum.

Your sense of priority is scandalous.

Lots of bad things happen all over the world every day. That doesn't mean everything else is meaningless.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:12 am

spot;1374915 wrote: To expand on that, my copy of the Harrison Daily Times arrived a few minutes ago. I quote from a main article:Distribution to families that are income eligible will start at 8 a.m. Wednesday, Nov. 9, and continue until all foods have been handed out [...] Foster children, households receiving food stamps or who meet income guidelines are eligible. Weekly incomes to determine eligibility are: 1 person, $273; 2 people, $368; 3 people, $464; 4 people, $559; 5 people, $655; 6 people, $750; 7 people, $846; 8 people, $941; add $96 for each additional person.

And the USA has 46 million people surviving on food stamps through volunteer programs like this across the country, and you're perturbed by the possibly accidental harm incurred by a Bull Mastiff?

Those are maximum incomes, by the way, not averages. I'd guess the mean is a lot less than half the maximum.

Your sense of priority is scandalous.

The thread molestation which you plunder as and when It suits you Is something you have bitterly whined about In the past. Do you make the rules up as you go along?

You have managed to derail yet another thread at your whim as an excuse for another rant at America.

" Your sense of priority is scandalous"... Could you show us where, anywhere on this thread, any member has stated that animals take priority over humans? Where does It actually state that or are you second guessing and reading between the lines again?

Granted the picture Is an American dog but why not get your own back yard In order first? What about the British homeless?

If you did a little further research Mr Spotty, you could break down your stats far ore accurately

From your figure:

44% did paid work In the last month.

21% received Income and support from families.

66% of the homeless have drug or alcohol abuse.

Only 30 % have been homeless for more than two years.

In 2006, the figure for homeless dropped by 30%.

All the time you choose selective stats and discount the rest, we can not progress.

Post by **spot** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:21 am

oscar;1374919 wrote: Only 30 % have been homeless for more than two years.Only?

ONLY??

Have you the foggiest idea what it's like living rough for so much as a month? And you have the unmitigable gall to say "*ONLY* 30%"?

Just about sums you up, that "Only".

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:30 am

spot;1374921 wrote: Only?

ONLY??

Have you the foggiest idea what it's like living rough for so much as a month? And you have the unmitigable gall to say "*ONLY* 30%"?

Just about sums you up, that "Only". Calm down old boy.

I am merely pointing out to members that you have deliberately misled them by selective quoting of statistics.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:34 am

oscar;1374923 wrote: Calm down old boy.

I am merely pointing out to members that you have deliberately misled them by selective quoting of statistics.

Oscar has Michael winner moment.

posted by spot

Because it's a pet animal in a world where pet genes encroach on the ability of wild genes to survive.

By that logic as a civilised human who might conceivably have difficulty surviving in the wild what value are you? Does your existence encroach on the ability of the wild human population to survive?

Anyone that can do that to a dog can probably do it to a human as well, it would be reasonable to say they lack empathy which even wild humans need in order to survive. There are plenty of studies that show the potential confluence of child maltreatment, domestic violence, and animal maltreatment. I am not a vegetarian and would kill to eat but speaking with the natural authority I have as a wild human someone who can do that to something so completely at their mercy is a sick bastard. Mind you I also think grouse shooting is along similar lines, slaughter for the fun of it is still slaughter. Hunt wild boar on foot armed with a spear now that would be sporting. One of my neighbours has a rescued collie that, amongst other things, someone pulled it's teeth out with a pair of pliers. I suppose you would argue compassion is wasted on an animal that has to live on meat broth but I know which human I would like to have as a neighbour.

------- wild oscar now there's a thought. Run for it spot.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:50 am

gmc;1374932 wrote: Oscar has Michael winner moment.

posted by spot

By that logic as a civilised human who might conceivably have difficulty surviving in the wild what value are you? Does your existence encroach on the ability of the wild human population to survive?

Anyone that can do that to a dog can probably do it to a human as well, it would be reasonable to say they lack empathy which even wild humans need in order to survive. There are plenty of studies that show the potential confluence of child maltreatment, domestic violence, and animal maltreatment. I am not a vegetarian and would kill to eat but speaking with the natural authority I have as a wild human someone who can do that to something so completely at their mercy is a sick bastard. Mind you I also think grouse shooting is along similar lines, slaughter for the fun of it is still slaughter. Hunt wild boar on foot armed with a spear now that would be sporting. One of my neighbours has a rescued collie that, amongst other things, someone pulled it's teeth out with a pair of pliers. I suppose you would argue compassion is wasted on an animal that has to live on meat broth but I know which human I would like to have as a neighbour.

------- wild oscar now there's a thought. Run for it spot.

Brilliant Post

Post by **Chloe_88** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:55 am

Ahso!;1374688 wrote: I guess you're active in animal rights. Don't you think getting your jollies and then locked up as recompense for one event would flush all that work down the drain and compromise your credibility going forward? If abused animals could communicate, as some can (human animals) most would ask to maintain your cool and keep up the good fight, like countless people try to do? Do you disagree?

Of course. But I still think they deserve it. Im not saying that should actually happen or that law would make this point part of the legal system. It's just how I feel. Like I said i'm NOT a mad vegan woman who campaigns for animal rights continuously.

But I do my own part in helping the abused animals. I've worked at the rescue center (sorry to say I havn't much time to help out at the moment) & I take animals into my home, after someone thought to make a quick bit of money by breeding and selling the animal to just about anybody that comes along.

I'm just sick and tired of people thinking they have the right to treat (any) animals like a piece rubbish.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:24 am

Chloe_88;1374938 wrote:

I'm just sick and tired of people thinking they have the right to treat (any) animals like a piece rubbish. I totally agree Chloe and frankly anyone who has no empathy for another species on this planet other than their own selfish selves, has no part In decent society.

gmc, Is quite right... I have looked Into this some years ago and there Is evidence that most sadistic killers started young by torturing animals. In fact I read some-where, that the FBI have highlighted this and urge anyone who knows of animals being abused or tortured to them so they can keep tabs on them In a bid to save later lives.

The basic Instinct of any human being should be to have empathy towards other species. If they don't, then In my book, there Is something wrong with them that they need to get checked out. That doesn't mean to say every human should fill their homes with strays but at least recognise the plight of something on this planet other than themselves.

Post by **Chloe_88** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:07 pm

oscar;1374942 wrote: That doesn't mean to say every human should fill their homes with strays but at least recognise the plight of something on this planet other than themselves.

Yeah I know I go a bit far sometimes by filling my home with strays / abused animals. I must say i'm running at max. at the moment; 4 cats, snakes, spiders and birds is a lot to take care of. So when I do have time instead of taking in more strays (taking in to many can also be cruel) I help out at the shelter.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:23 pm

Chloe_88;1374948 wrote: Yeah I know I go a bit far sometimes by filling my home with strays / abused animals. I must say i'm running at max. at the moment; 4 cats, snakes, spiders and birds is a lot to take care of. So when I do have time instead of taking in more strays (taking in to many can also be cruel) I help out at the shelter. Heartening to hear Chloe.

My husband was some-what relieved when we moved to a much smaller house a few years ago because like you, I would take as many as I could.

You'd get on with my nephew... He Is licensed to keep exotic species and Is known as Snake man round his town. The entire two upper floors of his house are filled with vivariums. He's the one some airports call when they find Illegal reptiles being smuggled In. I don't mind his snakes but I am not keen on the spiders. The most Impressive are the Bosc Monitors and Komodo dragons. He also has a variety of Sauria Lizards. I really must get some pics next time I visit him.

Post by **Chloe_88** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:28 pm

oscar;1374950 wrote: He Is licensed to keep exotic species and Is known as Snake man round his town. The entire two upper floors of his house are filled with vivariums. He's the one some airports call when they find Illegal reptiles being smuggled In.

O my god, so funny to read that! Hubby is also known as snake man (or Slangenman in dutch) over here. We've bought a house with 4 bedrooms so he could have 1 "Snakeroom" with is filled with vivariums aswell. He also gets the odd phonecall when "unwanted" snakes / reptiles are found in the area or in peoples homes.

My hubby and your nephew seem much alike. Would love to see pictures the nxt time you visit him!