Detroit firesale

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:25 pm

The civic assets of Detroit will presumably all go at auction in the near future. Or do I misunderstand the nature of filing for bankruptcy in the USA?

BBC News - Detroit becomes largest US city to file for bankruptcy

If anyone sees notice of a sale perhaps they'd like to link it into the thread. I might buy a library.

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:21 pm

Sometimes the odd line of news leaves me shaken.About $9bn of Detroit's debt is owed to the pension funds and retiree healthcare benefits of the city's 10,000 workers and 20,000 retirees.

BBC News - Detroit bankruptcy petition must be withdrawn, judge rules

What sort of criminal enterprise leaves pension funds unfenced against hard times? Robert Maxwell drowned himself rather than face the shame of gambling in similar territory.

What's the point of building up a pension entitlement with an employer so devoid of public conscience.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:22 am

The Michigan Governor's comments:

Snyder - VIDEO: Governor Snyder Authorizes Detroit Bankruptcy Filing

In many respects, this day has been six decades in the making. Detroit is buried under $18 billion in debt and unfunded liabilities. In fact, 38 cents of every city dollar goes toward debt repayment, legacy costs and other obligations. By 2017, that figure will go up to 65 cents per dollar.

That level of debt is unsustainable.

Meanwhile, the people of Detroit already pay the highest taxes per capita in Michigan. And the city's 700,000 residents don't receive the city services they deserve.

For Michigan to be a great state, Detroit needs to be a great city. And the simple fact is, Detroit is broke. By filing for bankruptcy, Detroit can get back on the right path. It can fix its finances. And it can focus on investing in city services so that Detroiters have a better quality of life. Better police and fire protection, trash pickup and street lighting.

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:26 am

And the pensioners and retiree healthcare benefits of the city's 10,000 workers and 20,000 retirees? No level of government has any moral duty to the obligations they accrued in public service?

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:46 pm

I think that the benefits and pensions is what got them here in the first place. Illinois is coming up on a similar situation.

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:08 pm

flopstock;1431955 wrote: I think that the benefits and pensions is what got them here in the first place. Illinois is coming up on a similar situation.

Contractually entitling employees to a pension wasn't the problem, the problem was stealing the trust money to fund current budget demands. It's called theft.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:41 pm

States, municipalities, unions "invested" in junk & "lost" the pension money, instead of investing safely at lower returns.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:14 am

Paul Krugman has an op-ed in today's NY Times on this. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/opini ... .html?_r=3&

So by all means letâ€™s have a serious discussion about how cities can best manage the transition when their traditional sources of competitive advantage go away. And letâ€™s also have a serious discussion about our obligations, as a nation, to those of our fellow citizens who have the bad luck of finding themselves living and working in the wrong place at the wrong time â€” because, as I said, decline happens, and some regional economies will end up shrinking, perhaps drastically, no matter what we do.

The important thing is not to let the discussion get hijacked, Greek-style. There are influential people out there who would like you to believe that Detroitâ€™s demise is fundamentally a tale of fiscal irresponsibility and/or greedy public employees. It isnâ€™t. For the most part, itâ€™s just one of those things that happens now and then in an ever-changing economy.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:19 am

From the Atlantic"

Detroit's most fundamental problem is that they guaranteed a defined benefit pension, without any ability to guarantee the future. While Detroit is an extreme example of this problem, it is also starting to crop up in California and a number of other locales, where the promised pension benefits have outstripped the local tax base, which has lead to cuts in services and tax hikes to pay for city debt and pension obligations. This has the triply negative effect of making the city more expensive to live in because taxes are higher, less attractive because of service cuts, and also is indicative of poor management, not to mention the absurdity of people who earn under $30k a year and live in houses worth under $10k being taxed to pay $60k a year pensions to retirees.

Source:

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:46 pm

Is it only me or does anyone else find it obscene that a "person" (in thisa case a city) can run up debts they can never hope to repay and then just walk away from them?

Oh, we'll just file for bancruptcy to reduce the burden on the residents - "today is a big step on the way to making this city great once again"! What about the creditors this will bankrupt in turn through no fault of their own?

Let the debt stay where the blame lies!

Fyrenza · Post by **Fyrenza** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:37 am

Bryn Mawr;1432153 wrote: Is it only me or does anyone else find it obscene that a "person" (in thisa case a city) can run up debts they can never hope to repay and then just walk away from them?

Oh, we'll just file for bancruptcy to reduce the burden on the residents - "today is a big step on the way to making this city great once again"! What about the creditors this will bankrupt in turn through no fault of their own?

Let the debt stay where the blame lies!

Not me,

and ESPECIALLY NOT if a citizen might have to file for bankruptcy,

and then be HOUNDED, by creditors, until the end of time,

and have NO reputable "credit" score.

But if you're gov?

You can STEAL BILLIONS,

and No One seems to care to investigate exactly WHERE those monies went.

Moral to this story?

GET ELECTED TO ANYTHING, and Steal Your Way, RICH!

Cripes.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:46 pm

Fyrenza;1432192 wrote: Not me,

and ESPECIALLY NOT if a citizen might have to file for bankruptcy,

and then be HOUNDED, by creditors, until the end of time,

and have NO reputable "credit" score.

But if you're gov?

You can STEAL BILLIONS,

and No One seems to care to investigate exactly WHERE those monies went.

Moral to this story?

GET ELECTED TO ANYTHING, and Steal Your Way, RICH!

Cripes.

And the city administration can steal hundreds of millions from the prople but that's OK?

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:57 pm

The pensions and healthcare for ciy workers average $19,000 per year. They have announced that they intend to continue building the new taxpayer-funded arena for the pro hockey team at a cost of $232 million. Oh, and they have the highest rate of corporate welfare of any city in the US, giving the corporations $6.6 billion a year in tax breaks and other giveaways.

source: Don’t buy the right-wing myth about Detroit - Salon.com

Fyrenza · Post by **Fyrenza** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:34 pm

Bryn Mawr;1432259 wrote: And the city administration can steal hundreds of millions from the prople but that's OK?

It isn't "okay" with me ~

as far as I'm concerned, the folks elected/hired to these jobs should be held responsible for their incompetence.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:01 pm

Fyrenza;1432269 wrote: It isn't "okay" with me ~

as far as I'm concerned, the folks elected/hired to these jobs should be held responsible for their incompetence.

Which is where my first post was coming from.

Fyrenza · Post by **Fyrenza** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:16 pm

My bad ~ I DO find it obscene;

unfortunately, I read "obscene" as "okay."

The very fact that it continues to happen, over and over, in city after city, however,

seems to point to the general populace thinking it IS "okay."

tabby · Post by **tabby** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:27 am

TÃ½r;1431898 wrote: The civic assets of Detroit will presumably all go at auction in the near future. Or do I misunderstand the nature of filing for bankruptcy in the USA?

BBC News - Detroit becomes largest US city to file for bankruptcy

If anyone sees notice of a sale perhaps they'd like to link it into the thread. I might buy a library.

You might need to roll up your sleeves ...

Abandoned: Mark Twain Branch Detroit Public Library - a set on Flickr

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:57 am

That's plain sinful.

As an aside - why on earth is a public library stocking paperbacks?

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:14 am

TÃ½r;1437837 wrote: That's plain sinful.

As an aside - why on earth is a public library stocking paperbacks?

theft isn't such a big deal . and students get to read as they choose instead of waiting for a copy.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:17 am

Fyrenza;1432192 wrote: Not me,

and ESPECIALLY NOT if a citizen might have to file for bankruptcy,

and then be HOUNDED, by creditors, until the end of time,

and have NO reputable "credit" score.

But if you're gov?

You can STEAL BILLIONS,

and No One seems to care to investigate exactly WHERE those monies went.

Moral to this story?

GET ELECTED TO ANYTHING, and Steal Your Way, RICH!

Cripes.

I don't understand if you declare bankruptsy how are debtors on your tale? Bankrupsty cuts them all out and you're bankrupt for seven years and then you can be okay again. does it work differently in other places?