muslim fanatics hurl hate abuse at our soldiers the AAgrumpy column

[Peter Lake]

Originally Posted by BTS

Two points......

1)
You defend the right of the Muslims here on this thread but in the hunting thread you put down the hunters who were legally hunting....

Quote, Oscar

"the muslims in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to protest and stage a demo providing no-one is assaulted."

It could be said:
the huntsmen in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to legally exist and stage a hunt providing no-one is assaulted.
Can't have it both ways.

2)
How do you figure this is an illegal war?
Show me the law broken?

il⋅le⋅gal   /ɪˈligəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [i-lee-guhl] Show IPA
–adjective 1.forbidden by law or statute.2.contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.: The referee ruled that it was an illegal forward pass.


And just because they enlisted they are not heros.........? (They didn't make up anything as you suppose)

You say you wish you could have been there to say this:

"They wielded banners branding the soldiers butchers, war criminals, murderers, terrorists — and baby killers.

They brandished placards showing obscene photos of mutilated children. And they yelled: “Anglian soldiers go to hell.”


Wow you might have attacked that kid out of malice and not to support a war veteran memorial after all???

I need to rethink here...

Good evening BTS,

As my wife is going to be away for a few days and unable to answer you herself, I hope you do not mind if I do.

Oscar defends the right of Muslims in a legal sense. The Muslims in the demonstration are British. Under British law, they have freedom of speech and the legal right to protest in the street. Legally, they have not broken the law. They are legally entitled to display as they wish on their placards.
What Oscar said about the war being illegal is based on what events took place in Britain that led the government to invade Iraq. I won't explain in full but our former Prime Minister lied to the country. We went into Iraq based on that lie and it has since been proved that Britain was under no threat from Iraq as he claimed at the time.
Oscar objects to fox hunting because of the manner in which the animal is killed. It is illegal to hunt fox in this country.
Legally she is entitled to stage a demonstration or protest at a hunt exactly the same way as the Muslims are legally entitled to protest in the street. She is not contradicting herself here. If it were made law that it was illegal to hold a protest, she would not or be able to do it any more than the Muslims would be able to. I will no doubt be in trouble for posting this but my wife was not happy with the slogans on the banners. If it were a demonstration that just protested about British troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, she may have joined it. I doubt very much if she would have sincerely joined it with such slogans.
As for the kid, for one, I was there when it happened and I was there in court when the transcript of call made to the emergency services by a member of the public was read out to the judge. The member of the public was asking police help for my wife and not the eye witness accounts of 20-25 male youths surrounding her. In this country, we have two kinds of assault. Common assault and assault. The next charge up from assault is actual bodily harm. If the kid was 'attacked' she would have been charged with actual bodily harm. She was not even charged with assault. She was charged with common assault which as the arresting officer when reading you your rights has to point out that common assault can even include your clothing coming into contact with the clothing of another. There is no way a judge here would pass down a conditional discharge if any kid was 'attacked' also. By the by, the kid was asked how tall he was in court. He was 5ft 9 inches, two inches taller than my wife as were all the youths involved.

Thanks, Pete

[pantoandy]

Originally Posted by oscar

The fact remains that the muslims in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to protest and stage a demo providing no-one is assaulted. That is the law. Legally, they were doing nothing wrong. It is no different to me protesting against the thirs run-way or fox hunting.

The returning soldiers are not hero's, don't make that mistake. They volunteered and entered an illegal war based on lie's and corruption.
I wish i had known the venue as i would have been with them.

these scum will never be british citizens they are the enemy within terrorists
traitors and as i said backstabbers to the country that took them in fed them clothed them and gave them money and shelter .
dont you dare insult the indigious british with this clap trap
at the end of the day they have commited treason and should be deported
or prefably hung

[gmc]

Originally Posted by oscar

I think you'll find that our fellow countrymen would agree with Spot and myself and not you.
Your hatred of the muslims and i remember your equally disdainful objection to the Palistinians protesting about Israel's action on Gaza, is down to your BNP tendencies rather than your legal knowledge or common sense.

YouTube - Blair & Bush (Hello)

They might agree with you so far as opposing the war in the first place. But most are also appreciative of the sense of duty shown by these soldiers-whether you think it a valid sense of duty or not does not detract from the reality that it is there.

The fact remains that the muslims in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to protest and stage a demo providing no-one is assaulted. That is the law. Legally, they were doing nothing wrong. It is no different to me protesting against the thirs run-way or fox hunting.

True they have right to protest the venue and people they chose are the wrong ones.

The ones to protest against are the politicians that got them in to this mess in the first place. This demonstration was a red herring. All the islamic protesters want to do is provoke a reaction and stir up anti muslim sentiment in the hope that there is a violent reaction. They are lucky they didn't get attacked-no doubt that is what they were hoping would happen. It's a dangerous way to go about things. for all we are a relatively easy going and tolerant nation inclined to live and let live we are also very warlike. It's not the BNP mindless thugs they need to worry about it's annoying the liberal minded majority of the population to the point they will not tolerate this kind of demonstration or calls for the sharia law in england Their spokesperson is also the one calling for sharia law in england-hardly a calming influence. No doubt they will try the same kind of tactic again, if they do i suspect there might indeed be a very violent reaction. To mock the soldiers that were killed is offensive in the extreme.

Maybe they should go to pakistan and try exercising their democratic rights there.

Pakistan locks up hundreds in bid to silence protests - Asia, World - The Independent

In a move compared to the authoritarian tactics used by the former president Pervez Musharraf, police carried out pre-dawn raids across Punjab province and used British colonial-era legislation to impose a ban on any gatherings of more than four people.

Ironic eh?

Student facing 20 years in hell - Asia, World - The Independent

As it happens I don't think we should have got involved in Afghanistan either but that doesn't detract from the fact that our soldier are doing a tough job, it's a pity our politicians are such a bunch of numpties with gordon brown one of the biggest.



posted by BTS

It could be said:
the huntsmen in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to legally exist and stage a hunt providing no-one is assaulted.
Can't have it both ways.

Actually they don't. it is illegal in this country and the riot you are referring to was them trying to prevent the law banning it being passed.

posted by BTS

Liberalism is an easy road to walk down. You simply do not believe in anything and when those that come to kill you approach, you embrace them with opens arms.

What an inane comment. You live in a liberal democracy do you think it was easy to achieve? A lot of peole were wiling to fight and die for liberty. People who believe in liberty are the most dangerous on the planet as they just will not give in no matter what you do to them-a fact fo which you should be eternally grateful. I think you are confusing liberals with hippies or christians of a happy clappy disposition-turn the other cheek and all that.

[pantoandy]

and for my column i recived this

You have received an infraction at ForumGarden
Dear pantoandy,

You have received an infraction at ForumGarden.

Reason: No \"Offensive\" Posts, Links or Images: Please do not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, racist, sexist, discriminatory, or otherwise violative of any local or international laws. This includes links in your signature, profile, bookmarks as well as posted images, photos and avatars. Staff will ultimately decide if something is appropriate or not.
-------
Please remember the limits of this forum regarding racism. Inciting violence against specific people is well beyond those limits.
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This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/wa...ml#post1156222
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscar View Post
The fact remains that the muslims in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to protest and stage a demo providing no-one is assaulted. That is the law. Legally, they were doing nothing wrong. It is no different to me protesting against the thirs run-way or fox hunting.

The returning soldiers are not hero's, don't make that mistake. They volunteered and entered an illegal war based on lie's and corruption.
I wish i had known the venue as i would have been with them.
these scum will never be british citizens they are the enemy within terrorists
traitors and as i said backstabbers to the country that took them in fed them clothed them and gave them money and shelter .
dont you dare insult the indigious british with this clap trap
at the end of the day they have commited treason and should be deported
or prefably hung
All the best,
ForumGarden
__________________

Having the right to an opinion does not make your opinion right.

AAG
it appears that even freedom of speech is gagged on the FG
and oscar didnt like what i wrote so she reported me for an infraction.
yet oscar is quoted as saying if she knew of the venue she would have joined them i replied if you support muslim terrorists you are also a traitor to the crown.
i stick with my original statement and i do not retract my statement that the protesting fanatics are scum they are and i will not retract my statement that they are not british subjects but dangerous foreign terrorists which we let in to our country and keep just for them to plot against us and make bombs killing innocent civilians which is treason yet we still allow them to go about their daily lives spouting their jihad rubbish and that england will be an islamic state and the best bit is they know who they are !!!
why arent they being deported at gatwick or swinging on a rope in pentonville ?
if our troops are no better than hitler they are the equviliant of lord haw haw the best thing was he was hung.
when will you see these dangerous terrorists for what they are after they,ve committed another 911 in london by flying a plane simultaniously into the houses of parliment and number 10 or blown up a shopping mall like harrods or selfridges
DONT SAY IT COULDNT HAPPEN IT COULD!!!by gagging the truth like here on the FG lets you see and hear only what they want you to see and hear

PERSONALLY YOU CAN STICK YOUR INFRACTION UP YOUR JUMPER AND IF THIS GETS ME ANOTHER INFRACTON STICK THAT ONE UP THERE TOO
as to my being a BNP supporter i am and hope they get in and sort this countries mess out.
OH BY THE WAY ITS CALLED FREEDOM OF SPEECH

[spot]

I suspect it had nothing to do with your quoting the entire article in full, much though I deplore it and much though it's against the rules here. I suspect it was for the scum traitors backstabbers treason deported hung comments. Hateful and threatening? Hard to see how words like that wouldn't qualify and you can't even hide behind their being quotes.

[OpenMind]

I agree very much with freedom of speech but I do expect that right to be used with truthful statements.

[YZGI]

Originally Posted by spot

I suspect it had nothing to do with your quoting the entire article in full, much though I deplore it and much though it's against the rules here. I suspect it was for the scum traitors backstabbers treason deported hung comments. Hateful and threatening? Hard to see how words like that wouldn't qualify and you can't even hide behind their being quotes.

Not wanting to start any trouble here but how is that any different than some of the posts about Bush, Blair, Cheney etc. etc. Calling them terrorists, war criminals and many more things? If you ask for instances, it may take me awhile because I'm a bit bust today but I should be able to come up with some.

By the way, this is not directed towards you Spot nor any other particular poster. This is just an observance.

[spot]

Originally Posted by YZGI

Not wanting to start any trouble here but how is that any different than some of the posts about Bush, Blair, Cheney etc. etc. Calling them terrorists, war criminals and many more things? If you ask for instances, it may take me awhile because I'm a bit bust today but I should be able to come up with some.

By the way, this is not directed towards you Spot nor any other particular poster. This is just an observance.

Two things. Firstly the terminology used, and second what's being called for. In Andy's case it's extra judicial vigilante persecution. In my case it's solely a demand for a judicial process applying the law of the land.

I accuse the Bush White House Administration of standing down US air defences on 9/11 and suppressing any attempt at an independent investigation.

I accuse the FBI of collusion before and after the fact.

I accuse some section of the US intelligence community or foreknowledge of the 9/11 attack, which they deliberately failed to prevent and actively facilitated.

I accuse the Bush White House Administration of taking steps to see that the attack succeeded, and that without such efforts on their part (reaching back as far as changing standing orders on air interception) the natural course of US Homeland Defence would have stopped the attacks from reaching their destinations.

None of that involves hateful or threatening language, it's entirely dispassionate and testable in a court of law. It's accusatory.

[BTS]

Originally Posted by gmc

posted by BTS


Actually they don't. it is illegal in this country and the riot you are referring to was them trying to prevent the law banning it being passed.

posted by BTS
Liberalism is an easy road to walk down. You simply do not believe in anything and when those that come to kill you approach, you embrace them with opens arms.

Conservatism, however is a difficult path. It is one where principles are supreme and the realization that embracing the enemy gives him the opportunity to stick a knife in your back.


What an inane comment. You live in a liberal democracy do you think it was easy to achieve? A lot of peole were wiling to fight and die for liberty. People who believe in liberty are the most dangerous on the planet as they just will not give in no matter what you do to them-a fact fo which you should be eternally grateful. I think you are confusing liberals with hippies or christians of a happy clappy disposition-turn the other cheek and all that.

huh..
If it is illegal then why were the hunters NOT arrested when they complained about the nut buzzing them 10 days earlier?
It appears they must have been within their rights?

I think you are confusing the menings of liberalism and liberty...

[gmc]

Originally Posted by BTS

huh..
If it is illegal then why were the hunters NOT arrested when they complained about the nut buzzing them 10 days earlier?
It appears they must have been within their rights?

I think you are confusing the menings of liberalism and liberty...

I think they were drag hunting which is not illegal, but the hunt saboteurs follow to make sure they don't go after foxes. but I would have to check.

They have the same linguistic root.

liberty

• noun (pl. liberties) 1 the state of being free from oppression or imprisonment. 2 a right or privilege. 3 the power or scope to act as one pleases. 4 informal a presumptuous remark or action.

— PHRASES take liberties 1 behave in an unduly familiar manner towards a person. 2 treat something freely, without strict faithfulness to the facts or to an original. take the liberty do something without first asking permission.

— ORIGIN Latin libertas, from liber ‘free’.

liberal

• adjective 1 willing to respect and accept behaviour or opinions different from one’s own. 2 (of a society, law, etc.) favourable to individual rights and freedoms. 3 (in a political context) favouring individual liberty, free trade, and moderate reform. 4 (Liberal) (in the UK) relating to the Liberal Democrat party. 5 (especially of an interpretation of a law) not strictly literal. 6 given, used, or giving in generous amounts. 7 (of education) concerned with broadening general knowledge and experience.

• noun 1 a person of liberal views. 2 (Liberal) (in the UK) a Liberal Democrat.

— DERIVATIVES liberalism noun liberality noun liberally adverb.

— ORIGIN originally meaning "suitable for a free man": from Latin liberalis, from liber ‘free man’

A more interesting question is why have so many americans been taught to denigrate the very principles their nation was supposedly founded on. Give me liberty or give me death is the perennial call to arms cry of the liberal in defence of individual freedom. When someone criticising the actions of his government can be dismissed as a traitorous wishy washy liberal something is perhaps wrong. Liberals and those of a liberal disposition will inherit the earth. sooner or later they prevail