Has He Paid His Debt ?

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by spot

Isn't the question rather whether he's more likely to re-offend in this regard when compared to the average American? Either he's learned his lesson and been rehabilitated or he hasn't and isn't. The alternative is to say everyone convicted of a crime has lost some portion of his civil rights permanently - by all means, if you want to arrange things so, then arrange them so, it's an arguable position to adopt. It's what Sir Thomas More advocated in Utopia, for example. It's not what the existing legal system is designed for, though I note that disenfranchisement has been tacked onto the US legal framework in recent years as a start toward the permanent criminalisation of convicts.

What ?
The questions I asked are the questions I was interested in hearing the answers to.

[flopstock]

Sorry.

If he can raise the dead dogs back to life and I'll consider a clean slate.

If he had unknowingly harmed, that's one thing. This guy was brutalizing for entertainment and profit....

oh wait.. football...

nope... these guys still get to choose whether to put their necks on the line.. no clean slate and no I don't want him living next to me. It's the guys who do this to animals that end up with human body parts in their fridge later in life ya know....

[spot]

Originally Posted by Nomad

What ?
The questions I asked are the questions I was interested in hearing the answers to.

About paying a debt to society? That's scarcely legal terminology, that's more a matter for religion. Some posters here fail to recognise any concept of the forgiveness of repented sin, absolution, washing clean in the blood of the Lamb or anything resembling it but that's the only sense in which repaying a debt to society resides. Criminal sentencing relates more to the rehabilitation of the offender with a defined termination to the sentence. Continuing that punishment for life isn't what the judge handed down.

[Odie]

Originally Posted by Nomad

Michael Vick has been released from prison for his crimes of cruelty to animals.
Has he payed his debt to society ?
Is he allowed to continue his life and career free from his past or should his transgressions follow him ?
If youre an NFL fan would you welcome him to your team ?

after housing 50 pit bulls in unbearable conditions and having them killed off while fighting?

no!..........he should not be allowed back into fame and fortune.


and 18 months sentence was just not enough.

[Victoria]

Originally Posted by hoppy

How do you equate a dog's worth to that of a child? Leave children out of the question.

Because the dog just as a child is at the mercy of the owner/parent they have no voice.
And because frankly I prefer dogs!

[RedGlitter]

[quote=Nomad;1224037]

Originally Posted by RedGlitter

Let's see...if he'd harmed and killed other living feeling beings, such as children, what would we say?

No, in my opinion he will never atone for what he did, he is not remotely remorseful, quote]

Now how could you possibly know this ?

Easy. Actions speak louder than words. I haven't seen any sign of regret for what he did other than the expected regret that he screwed up his career. Does he seem remorseful to you? It's a judgement call. And because he wronged society, society has the right to judge. It is society's responsibility to ostracize its offenders, whether they be thieves, rapists, drunk drivers or people who torture and kill dogs.

Hoppy, no I won't leave kids or other humans out of it.
A helpless child feels pain and bleeds if cut, well so does a helpless dog. It is society's job to protect its defenseless from harm and allowing this thug to retrieve any semblance of his previous fame and fortune is only saying "it was just an animal. Not worth much. You paid your debt." Your reaction Hoppy, to my bringing kids into it illustrates my point. Tell me if I am wrong but I am quite sure that if Vick had molested or murdered a child, you would want his head on a platter and rightfully so. I doubt many people would be claiming he paid his debt. Some things cannot be paid for because they are priceless to begin with.

Society is judged by how it treats its poor and defenseless. Allowing Vick even a fraction of his career equals acceptance. Acceptance of what he did. It should never happen.

[lou lou belle]

I believe that he should never be able to own another animal for the rest of his life. And.. if he was found to be involved in this activity again, he should serve a much longer sentence.

I hate anyone who uses animals to fight for the enjoyment and entertainment of others. Its disgraceful.

Get them in a ring and they can fight each other, see how much that hurts.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by spot

About paying a debt to society? That's scarcely legal terminology, that's more a matter for religion. Some posters here fail to recognise any concept of the forgiveness of repented sin, absolution, washing clean in the blood of the Lamb or anything resembling it but that's the only sense in which repaying a debt to society resides. Criminal sentencing relates more to the rehabilitation of the offender with a defined termination to the sentence. Continuing that punishment for life isn't what the judge handed down.

Sentencing has nothing to do with rehabilitation. Absolutely its a debt.

Red G
Easy. Actions speak louder than words. I haven't seen any sign of regret for what he did other than the expected regret that he screwed up his career. Does he seem remorseful to you? It's a judgement call. And because he wronged society, society has the right to judge. It is society's responsibility to ostracize its offenders, whether they be thieves, rapists, drunk drivers or people who torture and kill dogs.

Actions ? Hes been out of prison for 2 minutes. I havent exactly been keeping tabs on him though, have you ?
Forgiveness....its a powerful thing. Try it some time.

[Bill Sikes]

Originally Posted by Nomad

Michael Vick has been released from prison for his crimes of cruelty to animals.
Has he payed his debt to society ?

If he's "done his time", then by definition he must have. If there's concern that the time was not enough, then society must change the system for future offenders.

Originally Posted by Nomad

Is he allowed to continue his life and career free from his past or should his transgressions follow him ?

Difficult. If he's much in the public eye, then... hmm. What of the regulators of his career?

Originally Posted by Nomad

If youre an NFL fan would you welcome him to your team ?

I don't know what the NFL is, but I assume it's some sort of sporting thing. Personally, I might not welcome him to "my team", whatever that might be.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by Bill Sikes

If he's "done his time", then by definition he must have. If there's concern that the time was not enough, then society must change the system for future offenders.




Difficult. If he's much in the public eye, then... hmm. What of the regulators of his career?




I don't know what the NFL is, but I assume it's some sort of sporting thing. Personally, I might not welcome him to "my team", whatever that might be.

Fair enough !