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Thread: Use Taxes to Control Guns!

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    Senior Member Saint_'s Avatar
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    Use Taxes to Control Guns!

    What a great idea this is! We tax cigarettes and alcohol because they damage our society, why not guns which are doing much more damage?

    Taxing guns and bullets no more infringes on a the right to OWN a gun than taxing cigarettes infringes on the right to smoke. But it does do one thing well: it makes the person take responsibility for the damage to society they create in a very real way.

    (Personally, I'd like to see bullets sell for $100 each.)

    Using sales taxes as a gun control tool
    By: Rachael Bade
    April 9, 2013 04:39 AM EDT

    State and local officials are pushing a new way to expand gun control: taxes.

    Gun owners in and around Chicago last week started paying a new $25 tax on every firearm they purchase. In California, a statehouse panel on April 15 will hear testimony on a nickel-per-bullet tax measure, and in New Jersey, lawmakers want to slap an additional 5 percent sales tax on guns and ammo.

    The effort to impose new taxes on guns and bullets faces serious opposition from pro-gun groups, but it shows how far some states and localities are willing to go in this new frontier on gun control — especially as Washington struggles to find consensus even on the most scaled-back gun proposals being debated in Congress.


    “There are costs incurred as a result of gun violence which are borne by the general taxpayer — both social and economical,” California Assemblyman Roger Dickinson, who put forward a nickel ammo tax proposal in January, said in an interview. “There ought to be a cost … to those who want to buy firearms.”

    “I’m not asking to take away people’s guns, I’m just saying that for an activity that is relatively dangerous, obviously, people who participate in that activity should pay the full costs of that activity,” said Maryland state Delegate Jon Cardin of Baltimore, who in January introduced legislation to tax bullets at 50 percent.

    Gun and ammo tax supporters say those costs include law enforcement programs and paying for the medical care of gunshot victims.

    Using sales taxes as a gun control tool - POLITICO.com Print View

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    Senior Member halfway's Avatar
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    Re: Use Taxes to Control Guns!

    Whatever the method, American citizens must be disarmed now!

    They are the rogue country of the world and this stands fully in the way of any type of global governing body and is a killer of peace throughout the world.

    Tax the illegal contraband as well.

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    Zero mod strikes. HAH!!! YZGI's Avatar
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    Re: Use Taxes to Control Guns!

    Next thing you know, we will be taxing carbs, sugar, fat. Think how much we could tax bacon alone. Oh and salt for sure. We also need to tax all sports at every level to try and keep people from hurting themselves. Tax computers because people sit around all day without exercise. We need to put in a toll booth at all Macdonalds. We must keep everyone safe from everything through taxes..

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    Re: Use Taxes to Control Guns!

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_ View Post
    What a great idea this is! We tax cigarettes and alcohol because they damage our society, why not guns which are doing much more damage?

    Taxing guns and bullets no more infringes on a the right to OWN a gun than taxing cigarettes infringes on the right to smoke. But it does do one thing well: it makes the person take responsibility for the damage to society they create in a very real way.
    Minor detail: There's no recognized right to smoke immortalized in our Constitution.

    But that's okay. You'd support a regressive tax that imposes a greater burden on the poor than on the rich? I'm sure Washington is cool with that, too. After all, it's only the poor people that can't be trusted with guns, right?

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    Senior Member Saint_'s Avatar
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    Re: Use Taxes to Control Guns!

    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    Minor detail: There's no recognized right to smoke immortalized in our Constitution.
    Surre there is: the right to "pursue happiness."

    But that's okay. You'd support a regressive tax that imposes a greater burden on the poor than on the rich?
    More poor people own guns than rich people? Really? The law says you can't stop people from owning guns. It says nothing about how much they should pay for the devastation it causes to society.

    As for taxing carbs sugar and fat, we just did that. We are requiring health insurance for everyone because our society can't continue to pay the medical bills for everyone who deliberately screws their health.

    Moral to the story: you hurt society with your personal behavior, you should pay for that damage. It's called "responsibility."

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    Premium Member tude dog's Avatar
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    Re: Use Taxes to Control Guns!

    “The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men,
    Gang aft agley.
    An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
    For promis'd joy!

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    Premium Member tude dog's Avatar
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    Re: Use Taxes to Control Guns!

    The power to tax is the power to destroy

    In 1819, McCulloch v. Maryland, the Supreme Court under John Marshall said that the State of Maryland could not use the power to tax to basically nullify a federal law. I would argue than an attempt to erase citizens Constitutional Rights by taxation would also be unConstitutional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_ View Post
    Surre there is: the right to "pursue happiness."
    right to smoke equals pursuit of happiness? Did you find that in The Federalist?.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_ View Post
    Moral to the story: you hurt society with your personal behavior, you should pay for that damage. It's called "responsibility."
    I couldn't agree more. That is why we have tens of thousands of laws regarding misuse of firearms.

    Before you know it there will be laws against soda pop and bottled water.

    Ooops, I misspoke, there already are.
    “The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men,
    Gang aft agley.
    An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
    For promis'd joy!

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    Senior Member Accountable's Avatar
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    Re: Use Taxes to Control Guns!

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_ View Post
    Surre there is: the right to "pursue happiness."



    More poor people own guns than rich people? Really? The law says you can't stop people from owning guns. It says nothing about how much they should pay for the devastation it causes to society.
    Histrionic pap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_ View Post
    As for taxing carbs sugar and fat, we just did that. We are requiring health insurance for everyone because our society can't continue to pay the medical bills for everyone who deliberately screws their health.
    Blatantly unconstitutional socialism to counteract earlier socialist policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_ View Post
    Moral to the story: you hurt society with your personal behavior, you should pay for that damage. It's called "responsibility."
    The way you go about it is the antonym of responsibility. If you truly were for people taking responsibility for themselves then you wouldn't have included your senseless rant about carbs. Rather than that, you are plainly in favor of government taking responsibility away from individuals and forcing your own morality upon them.

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    Senior Member Saint_'s Avatar
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    Re: Use Taxes to Control Guns!

    America is obese and dying from it by the hundreds of thousands.
    America is killing it's citizens by the tens of thousands with guns.
    America is killing hundreds of whole families by drunk driving.

    Doesn't all that carnage prove that people, on a massive or even planetary scale, are fundamentally incapable of taking care of themselves?

    People instinctively know this. That's why we developed governments. Then we rant against them. I've seen the same thing in children. They say they don't want rules, but they do.

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    Premium Member tude dog's Avatar
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    Re: Use Taxes to Control Guns!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_ View Post
    America is obese and dying from it by the hundreds of thousands.
    Life Expectancy Graphs

    Yea, we are just dropping off like flies.

    Obesity does contribute to serious health problems. And your answer is to tax?

    Tax what?

    The problem is not simple. It does not affect all races, social economic, regional, cultures, etc. people equally.

    Centers for Disease and Contorl

    America is killing it's citizens by the tens of thousands with guns.

    By the tens of thousands?

    If you count suicides,

    2010, United States
    Suicide Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000
    All Races, Both Sexes, All Ages
    ICD-10 Codes: X72-X74


    Number of
    Deaths Population Crude
    Rate Age-Adjusted
    Rate**
    19,392 308,745,538 6.28 6.06
    2010, United States
    Homicide/Legal Intervention Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000
    All Races, Both Sexes, All Ages
    ICD-10 Codes: X93-X95,Y35.0, *U01.4


    Number of
    Deaths Population Crude
    Rate Age-Adjusted
    Rate**
    11,422 308,745,538 3.70 3.73
    Oh BTW total suicides,

    10, United States
    Suicide Injury Deaths and Rates per 100,000
    All Races, Both Sexes, All Ages
    ICD-10 Codes: X60-X84, Y87.0,*U03


    Number of
    Deaths Population Crude
    Rate Age-Adjusted
    Rate**
    38,364 308,745,538 12.43 12.08
    So firearms account for about half of all suicides.

    This is an interesting chart which I cannot just picture here.

    http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pd...ths_2010-a.pdf

    America is killing hundreds of whole families by drunk driving.

    Whole Families, OK



    Drunk Driving Fatalities Fall Below 10,000
    By MADD | December 10, 2012| 8 Comments | Filed in: Drunk Driving

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) released new data today showing 9,878 drunk driving fatalities in 2011. As a result, MADD is celebrating an historic milestone in the nation’s fight against drunk driving: the first time drunk driving fatalities have fallen below 10,000.
    Not only did the number of people killed in drunk driving crashes in 2011 (9,878) drop by 2.5 percent from the number killed in 2010 (10,136), but this decline outpaced the 1.9 percent decrease in overall highway deaths. LINK
    I am no fan of either MADD or drunk drivers, but I thought we already learned from Prohibition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_ View Post
    Doesn't all that carnage prove that people, on a massive or even planetary scale, are fundamentally incapable of taking care of themselves?
    no

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_ View Post
    People instinctively know this.
    Uhh, there are a lot of things I could say people instinctively know.

    I have a list, and if King, most people would not like it, but that is to bad as we accept the concept of self government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_ View Post
    That's why we developed governments. Then we rant against them. I've seen the same thing in children. They say they don't want rules, but they do.
    Dude, you are just blowing my mind man, really for sure.
    “The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men,
    Gang aft agley.
    An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
    For promis'd joy!

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