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Thread: The European influence on Arab events

  1. #31
    Senior Member FourPart's Avatar
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    Re: The European influence on Arab events

    In any situation,good or bad, be it Political, Religious or just plain Criminal Greed "They" always have to have a Central Instigator. Things don't happen spontaneously. When a land which is supposedly Poverty Stricken can still afford to keep buying guns & missiles it strikes me that this is not necessarily the real situation. "They", the people, if left to their own devices would be more inclined to concentrate of putting food on the table.

    "They" are not the people. "They" are the Self-Imposed Administrators.

  2. #32
    Senior Member High Threshold's Avatar
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    Re: The European influence on Arab events

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    No President or Prime Minister does anything without guidance from his backroom boys
    “Backroom boys”. I see. May I submit another familiar term for your scrutiny? “Handlers” or “Puppeteers”. In any case, we do agree it is “they” not “him”.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    Apparrently the man was a little inept in some situations and under the constant glare of news media, but I don't believe all the character assasination.
    So then you're of the opinion that his deeds in Irak were intentional, including he and his mates laughing all the way to the bank? Now we're getting somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    You describe ineptitude, and major influence from interested parties, call it corruption or collective greed, on the American level.
    I do call it corruption or collective greed but I'm not sure it is restricted to merely an “American” level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    My "They" are some mysterious international group cooperating for global supremacy.
    So in the end you don't discount the possibility of planned evil at work, you're just not sure who the culprits might be. Welcome.

  3. #33
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    Re: The European influence on Arab events

    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    GMc's response refined the discussion, but most of what I said still holds.
    Actually I'd agree with you up to a point. It's true the partition ignored tribal boundaries and was basically a land grab for resources in the region oil was a very significant factor that's why we went for irag and iran. Without oil no one would be interested, I think you underestimate just how much it was a factor. That is what empires did it's recent times and we now think such actions wrong. That's the way of the world, the US has grown by expanionist foreign policies and was not averse to finding causus belli when it suited iraq bing the most recent example that too was about oil as is policy towards iran. In democracies people won't go to war just because their leaders tell them to they need to be persuaded. That's a whole opic in itself.

    The other factor was the balfour declaration.

    The Balfour Declaration of 1917

    Anti-semitism, religion moslem or christian are potent forces. Since religion is by definition an irrational belief system getting a reasonable rational solution to the problems of the middle east is an uphill struggle.

    I would repeat my question. For how many generations do you blame old colonial masters for your problems? We all at some point look at the past and where we come from and decide what we are going to do nations are the same, being a victim of oppression is a factor it's what you do about it that makes the difference. That sounds rather trite and quite frankly i don't klnow what I would do were I living in any of those countries, fighting somebody but who and what for?. Without religion in the mix the war mght stop but secular states and democracy can't be imposed.

    I've always thought the current us support for israel from the christian right was in part a reaction to the guilt they felt over their previous equally passionate anti-semitism and support for hitler.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Bruv's Avatar
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    Re: The European influence on Arab events

    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    “Backroom boys”. I see. May I submit another familiar term for your scrutiny? “Handlers” or “Puppeteers”. In any case, we do agree it is “they” not “him”.
    Not "Handlers" and not "Puppeteers", they are business acquaintances or old friends helping each other out.

    So then you're of the opinion that his deeds in Irak were intentional, including he and his mates laughing all the way to the bank? Now we're getting somewhere.
    I do call it corruption or collective greed but I'm not sure it is restricted to merely an “American” level.So in the end you don't discount the possibility of planned evil at work, you're just not sure who the culprits might be. Welcome
    It is the organised international corrupt and greedy level cooperating from different sides such as Russia in a conspiracy with the rich multinationals towards world domination, I disagree with.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

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    Senior Member High Threshold's Avatar
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    Re: The European influence on Arab events

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    Not "Handlers" and not "Puppeteers", they are business acquaintances or old friends helping each other out.
    Oh, you mean business acquaintances! "Nice White House you have here Georgie Boy. It would be too bad if something bad should happen to it.”

  6. #36
    Senior Member FourPart's Avatar
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    Re: The European influence on Arab events

    Whether you love him or loathe him, Obama (same goes for Cameron, for that matter) is only the Democratically elected leader of the country, rather than a Dictator & although he may hold a fair amount of influence over final decisions he still has to get approval from the lower houses (Senate / Congress - Commons / Lords, etc - or whatever the system is). Without majority approval they have the power to boycott anything they propose, so you can't just blame the figurehead.

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    Senior Member High Threshold's Avatar
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    Re: The European influence on Arab events

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    ...... you can't just blame the figurehead.
    You can blame him for taking on a job for which he made great promises but hasn't delivered. It's like me promising your husband he's going to get lucky tonight. How in hell should I know? I have no influence in the matter. You might have a headache for all I know.

  8. #38
    Senior Member FourPart's Avatar
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    Re: The European influence on Arab events

    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    You can blame him for taking on a job for which he made great promises but hasn't delivered. It's like me promising your husband he's going to get lucky tonight. How in hell should I know? I have no influence in the matter. You might have a headache for all I know.
    I've nothing against Same Sex Marriages, but I can assure you that I have no intention of taking on a husband.

  9. #39
    Senior Member High Threshold's Avatar
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    Re: The European influence on Arab events

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    I've nothing against Same Sex Marriages, but I can assure you that I have no intention of taking on a husband.

    Uhhhh shyt! I think I just put my foot in it! Any idea how I can extricate myself from this one with my pride still intact you think?

  10. #40
    Senior Member AnneBoleyn's Avatar
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    Re: The European influence on Arab events

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    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    Uhhhh shyt! I think I just put my foot in it! Any idea how I can extricate myself from this one with my pride still intact you think?
    Nope. No way. Start squirming.

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