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Thread: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

  1. #131
    Proudly humble LarsMac's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
    I am not continuous with the idiotic hierarchical bloodline of speechless apes.
    So, in your world, if a critter cannot speak, they are not conscious?
    "The trouble with people isn't that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so." - Will Rogers
    "Truth isn't Truth" - Rudy Giuliani

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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    So, in your world, if a critter cannot speak, they are not conscious?
    Of course not , vocal chords are not a sign of consciousness , but it can be a characteristic of it under certain circumstances. Just as vocabulary is not a sign of intelligence , but under certain circumstances it could be.

    Defining consciousness is not a one page cut and dry thing. Least not in my study of it. I view consciousness as a human capacity in the physical world. Only humans are conscious in my study of it and there is no reason for animals to be conscious : for what? Why should animals be conscious? Explain to me why? They have survived millions of years without it.

  3. #133
    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    If primordial man was conscious he would have developed , performed , and created much better and quicker. That's what I believe. But they peaked at a primordial level then died out. Muck like apes, showing only high instinct.

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    Senior Member Singh-Song's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
    Of course not , vocal chords are not a sign of consciousness , but it can be a characteristic of it under certain circumstances. Just as vocabulary is not a sign of intelligence , but under certain circumstances it could be.

    Defining consciousness is not a one page cut and dry thing. Least not in my study of it. I view consciousness as a human capacity in the physical world. Only humans are conscious in my study of it and there is no reason for animals to be conscious : for what? Why should animals be conscious? Explain to me why? They have survived millions of years without it.
    There are any number of animals which are undeniably conscious. And your logic there is non-existent. Because humans ARE animals. Hence, your argument is that "there is no reason for animals (including humans) to be conscious : for what? Why should animals be conscious? Explain to me why? They have survived millions of years without it." Except that we ARE conscious. And there were indisputably massive advantages to our developing consciousness to the level that we did.

    As for 'primordial man'- just how far back are we talking about? At exactly what stage, in history or pre-history, pray tell, do you believe that mankind DID become 'conscious'? What archeological and/or biological evidence are you basing that entirely arbitrary dividing line on? And in your opinion, was this a universal dividing line, or do you effectively believe in racial supremacy- that only one race of Homo Sapiens evolved consciousness (i.e, Homo Sapiens Sapiens, as opposed to Homo Sapiens Neanderthalis or Homo Sapiens Rhodensiensis), and that we are the sole conscious beings to have ever existed on this planet?

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    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Singh-Song View Post
    There are any number of animals which are undeniably conscious. And your logic there is non-existent. Because humans ARE animals. Hence, your argument is that "there is no reason for animals (including humans) to be conscious : for what? Why should animals be conscious? Explain to me why? They have survived millions of years without it." Except that we ARE conscious. And there were indisputably massive advantages to our developing consciousness to the level that we did.

    As for 'primordial man'- just how far back are we talking about? At exactly what stage, in history or pre-history, pray tell, do you believe that mankind DID become 'conscious'? What archeological and/or biological evidence are you basing that entirely arbitrary dividing line on? And in your opinion, was this a universal dividing line, or do you effectively believe in racial supremacy- that only one race of Homo Sapiens evolved consciousness (i.e, Homo Sapiens Sapiens, as opposed to Homo Sapiens Neanderthalis or Homo Sapiens Rhodensiensis), and that we are the sole conscious beings to have ever existed on this planet?
    Hello and welcome back

  6. #136
    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Singh-Song View Post
    There are any number of animals which are undeniably conscious. And your logic there is non-existent. Because humans ARE animals. Hence, your argument is that "there is no reason for animals (including humans) to be conscious : for what? Why should animals be conscious? Explain to me why? They have survived millions of years without it." Except that we ARE conscious. And there were indisputably massive advantages to our developing consciousness to the level that we did.

    As for 'primordial man'- just how far back are we talking about? At exactly what stage, in history or pre-history, pray tell, do you believe that mankind DID become 'conscious'? What archeological and/or biological evidence are you basing that entirely arbitrary dividing line on? And in your opinion, was this a universal dividing line, or do you effectively believe in racial supremacy- that only one race of Homo Sapiens evolved consciousness (i.e, Homo Sapiens Sapiens, as opposed to Homo Sapiens Neanderthalis or Homo Sapiens Rhodensiensis), and that we are the sole conscious beings to have ever existed on this planet?
    I answered all those questions in the thread. Consciousness was not developed, you don't grow it like a weed. The Atheist mind is too far gone
    Down the wrong roads. There is no explanation for them.

  7. #137
    Senior Member FourPart's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    There is no doubt that many animals communicate within their species, and even more so within their same groups. Many of those not for personal gain, but for the overall good of the community. Killer Whales teach their young how to hunt. Chimps plan attacks on neighbouring groups. All of this shows intelligence & conciousness.

    One question you have not answered - in just the same way as you always sidestep the question. Just exactly how do you define conciousness? Your type never like to define the parameters of anything as it leaves it open for something to meet the definition, thus proving you wrong.

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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    How to define consciousness. A good question.

  9. #139
    Proudly humble LarsMac's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    I believe that without Empathy, there is no true Consciousness.
    "The trouble with people isn't that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so." - Will Rogers
    "Truth isn't Truth" - Rudy Giuliani

  10. #140
    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    There is no doubt that many animals communicate within their species, and even more so within their same groups. Many of those not for personal gain, but for the overall good of the community. Killer Whales teach their young how to hunt. Chimps plan attacks on neighbouring groups. All of this shows intelligence & conciousness.

    One question you have not answered - in just the same way as you always sidestep the question. Just exactly how do you define conciousness? Your type never like to define the parameters of anything as it leaves it open for something to meet the definition, thus proving you wrong.
    I really don't know how to define consciousness. Awareness is a common accepted answer that I agree with. I think consciousness is life with purpose. Its the uncanny miracle of thought.

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