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Thread: Positive outcome from brexit

  1. #101
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Positive outcome from brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    Whilst a hard Brexit is by no means ideal it is infinitely preferable to the impossible deal that May has put on the table and appears to be obsessively committed to.

    On the other hand, I am convinced that the EU would immediately grant an extension if the reason was to allow a second referendum.
    I agree. But I think what we will have on April 1st is no deal, no extension, no second referendum and a scapegoat Prime Minister who will be spoken of by future generations with the same opprobrium as Neville Chamberlain and Castlereagh.

    Her national address just now was a complete denial of reality, not even an acknowledgement of President Tusk's ultimatum.

    I wonder who the next Leader of the Conservative Party will be.
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  2. #102
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: Positive outcome from brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    I agree. But I think what we will have on April 1st is no deal, no extension, no second referendum and a scapegoat Prime Minister who will be spoken of by future generations with the same opprobrium as Neville Chamberlain and Castlereagh.

    Her national address just now was a complete denial of reality, not even an acknowledgement of President Tusk's ultimatum.

    I wonder who the next Leader of the Conservative Party will be.
    Talking of separation from reality, did you note that Trump Jr is complaining that the UK is not acting according to his father's instructions over Brexit

  3. #103
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Positive outcome from brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    Talking of separation from reality, did you note that Trump Jr is complaining that the UK is not acting according to his father's instructions over Brexit
    I hadn't seen that, no. Has he not been jailed yet? Why are they waiting?

    The swivel-eyed Martian - John Redwood - must be holding his breath wondering which way the Brexit tree is going to fall. It's anyone's guess.

    The Guardian leader, tomorrow:


    Her political capital is all spent. She has no allies at home or abroad. Her only leverage in parliament comes from the fear that her appalling management of the country provokes – the prospect that she is incompetent enough to allow the worst to happen. She long ago lost sight of diplomacy and strategy. Then she shed authority. Now she has abandoned responsibility, completing the journey from bad prime minister to rogue prime minister.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ter-gone-rogue

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  4. #104
    Senior Member FourPart's Avatar
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    Re: Positive outcome from brexit

    Personally the only Referendum I would support is "May's Deal or No Deal". The decision to Leave has already been made & is a moot point. When it was announced that May was about to make an announcement, like many others I was wondering whether it was going to be her resignation or the calling of a Snap Election. As it happened, it was just a repeat of the twaddle she'd come up with earlier in the days at PMQs.

  5. #105
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: Positive outcome from brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    Personally the only Referendum I would support is "May's Deal or No Deal". The decision to Leave has already been made & is a moot point. When it was announced that May was about to make an announcement, like many others I was wondering whether it was going to be her resignation or the calling of a Snap Election. As it happened, it was just a repeat of the twaddle she'd come up with earlier in the days at PMQs.
    So you believe that it is acceptable for politicians to deliberately lie and break electoral law in order to win a vote and that once a vote is won in that way it is irrevocable?

  6. #106
    Senior Member FourPart's Avatar
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    Re: Positive outcome from brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    So you believe that it is acceptable for politicians to deliberately lie and break electoral law in order to win a vote and that once a vote is won in that way it is irrevocable?
    The breaches of Electoral Law regarding financing was very questionable. The Remain campaign spent nearly twice as much as its permitted budget in their Propaganda Booklet alone. The difference being that they funded it from the Treasury, by the Tax Payer. They also split their campaigning into different groups, working as a co-operative, so as to increase their collective budget. Using Legal Loopholes does not make them innocent. I consider a Tax Evader to be more honest than a Tax Avoider because at least they are not openly using deceit in order to justify their actions.

    The only example of Leave 'Lies' that anyone ever seems to come up with is the dreaded 'bus' which, to all intents & purposes was correct & has just deliberately be misconstrued by the Remainers. Do we send £350m/week to the EU? Yes we do. However, we get about 15% of that back as a rebate, which the EU then tells us how to spend it. In other words we send them about £275m/week AND they get to tell us that we have to spend an additional £75m on whatever they say. As for saying they WOULD spend that on the NHS, that's not so either. The wording was "Let's fund our NHS instead". It simply means that the funding could be spent on much better things SUCH AS the NHS. The Remain campaign focussed on Project Fear (and continues to do so), using speculation of a totally unprecedented situation as 'fact' & prophesying doom & destruction immediately following a Leave result. It never happened.

    Personally I made my decision about which way I was going to vote long before the Referendum was even announced. I suspect the same can be said for the vast majority of everyone else who voted for either side. Anyone who admits to being swayed by the campaigning in such a bad campaign on both sides is admitting to be extremely gullible.

    Throughout the campaign the vast majority of the House, on both sides were campaigning for Remain. Both sides were clearly out of touch with the electorate. Now that the results are in the balance of MPs remains the same with at least 75% of MPs being pro-Remain, which is a disgrace, as they are no representing the views of the electorate. If they were the split should theoretically be about 50:50.

  7. #107
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: Positive outcome from brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    The breaches of Electoral Law regarding financing was very questionable. The Remain campaign spent nearly twice as much as its permitted budget in their Propaganda Booklet alone. The difference being that they funded it from the Treasury, by the Tax Payer. They also split their campaigning into different groups, working as a co-operative, so as to increase their collective budget. Using Legal Loopholes does not make them innocent. I consider a Tax Evader to be more honest than a Tax Avoider because at least they are not openly using deceit in order to justify their actions.

    The only example of Leave 'Lies' that anyone ever seems to come up with is the dreaded 'bus' which, to all intents & purposes was correct & has just deliberately be misconstrued by the Remainers. Do we send £350m/week to the EU? Yes we do. However, we get about 15% of that back as a rebate, which the EU then tells us how to spend it. In other words we send them about £275m/week AND they get to tell us that we have to spend an additional £75m on whatever they say. As for saying they WOULD spend that on the NHS, that's not so either. The wording was "Let's fund our NHS instead". It simply means that the funding could be spent on much better things SUCH AS the NHS. The Remain campaign focussed on Project Fear (and continues to do so), using speculation of a totally unprecedented situation as 'fact' & prophesying doom & destruction immediately following a Leave result. It never happened.

    Personally I made my decision about which way I was going to vote long before the Referendum was even announced. I suspect the same can be said for the vast majority of everyone else who voted for either side. Anyone who admits to being swayed by the campaigning in such a bad campaign on both sides is admitting to be extremely gullible.

    Throughout the campaign the vast majority of the House, on both sides were campaigning for Remain. Both sides were clearly out of touch with the electorate. Now that the results are in the balance of MPs remains the same with at least 75% of MPs being pro-Remain, which is a disgrace, as they are no representing the views of the electorate. If they were the split should theoretically be about 50:50.
    The breaches of electoral law on the part of the Leave campaign were serious enough that they were taken to court and fined heavily, the same cannot be said of the Remain campaign so unless you are saying that the UK legal system is corrupt I stand by my assertion.

    The day after the referendum both Boris and Nigel admited that some of the claims they had made were unachievable, if that is not lying then what is.

    As to the net spending on the EU, you are totally ignoring the Regional Development Fund that pays large amount from the EU into the UK. Also, lying by misdirection is still lying and although the words on the bus could be construed as you say the speeches by the Leave politicians and, especially, the garbage editorials in the media could not.

    Project Fear The reality over the past three years has far exceeded the confusion prophicied by the Remain campaign - giving it a snazzy name does not mean that what was being said could not be realistic predictions.

  8. #108
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    Re: Positive outcome from brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    Personally the only Referendum I would support is "May's Deal or No Deal". The decision to Leave has already been made & is a moot point. When it was announced that May was about to make an announcement, like many others I was wondering whether it was going to be her resignation or the calling of a Snap Election. As it happened, it was just a repeat of the twaddle she'd come up with earlier in the days at PMQs.
    If the matter is moot point then it is still up for discussion.

    "moot
    /muːt/
    adjective
    adjective: moot

    1.
    subject to debate, dispute, or uncertainty.
    "whether the temperature rise was mainly due to the greenhouse effect was a moot point"
    synonyms: debatable, open to debate, open to discussion, arguable, questionable, at issue, open to question, open, doubtful, open to doubt, disputable, contestable, controvertible, problematic, problematical, controversial, contentious, vexed, disputed, unresolved, unsettled, up in the air, undecided, yet to be decided, undetermined, unconcluded"

    In a democracy people have the right to change their minds if new information leads to the realisation that a mistake is being made. To claim otherwise is an example of the kind of parthetic sophistry the brexit campseem to specialise in.

    Something else you won't see on the bbc.

    First Minister's Questions - 21 March 2019

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=CBuSG7lJXnw

    Ignore the last half it's dead boring.

    There is little doubt that there will be a second scottish independence referendum. The mainstream media wouldbe well advised to start paying attention.

  9. #109
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    Re: Positive outcome from brexit

    Hey, I have it on Good Authortiy that Uri Gellar has it covered
    "The trouble with people isn't that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so." - Will Rogers
    "Truth isn't Truth" - Rudy Giuliani

  10. #110
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: Positive outcome from brexit

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    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    Hey, I have it on Good Authortiy that Uri Gellar has it covered
    He May have or he might be bending the truth but if he wants to use psychic influence he’ll have to spoon feed us :-)

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