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Thread: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    The more I look at Primordial Man, the less I see them as having a consciousness that was even similar to ours. I think they had physical brains, and highly developed instincts, but I do not view them as being conscious beings. They stayed stagnant far too long; stayed the same literally, with almost little change in over what; 250,000 years and more. Perhaps much more.

    In my view, they never became civilized.

    In example, what are the sure signs of consciousness and civilization? And did they display those? I think not. Here are some signs of Consciousness and civilization;

    Language
    Mathmatics
    Science
    Transportation
    Spelling
    Religion
    Technology
    War
    Education
    communication
    Building
    Agriculture
    And the list just goes on and on, and Primordial man had almost zero of these that developed into a higher stage before Adam came on the scene, and I believe Adam was the first human with an active working consciousness, and soon after him civilization began, and later Egypt really grew in its civilization.

    Too much time elasped for me to accept that neanderthals and cromagnons had consciousness, those who lived before the Ice Age. They basically stayed the same for perhaps millions of years?

    Is it then possible for a whole race of humans to exist, and not be conscious?

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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    How much of our consciousness do we modern day people even use? I think we subconsciously do far more than we realize.

    And I think Primordial humans did everything they did subconsciously.

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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    Consciousness evolved, as man began solving some of the problems he encountered.

    Figuring out how to manage fire, was a major advance.
    Learning to cook, another.
    Fire gave the early hunter-gatherer some amount of safety.
    And sitting around a campfire has always been something to inspire the imagination.

    Once man had a moment to just sit and think, all sorts of things began to happen.
    "The trouble with people isn't that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so." - Will Rogers
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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    Consciousness evolved, as man began solving some of the problems he encountered.

    Figuring out how to manage fire, was a major advance.
    Learning to cook, another.
    Fire gave the early hunter-gatherer some amount of safety.
    And sitting around a campfire has always been something to inspire the imagination.

    Once man had a moment to just sit and think, all sorts of things began to happen.


    I think Consciousness most certainly evolves, is probally the one thing about humanity that is still now evolving that I would agree with. I agree firguring how to manage fire was a major advance; I would argue primordial man too way too long to even learn to manage that- a sure sign of lack of a working consciousness. You mentioned " Imagination", which is another sign of consciousness; Primordial man has shown very little of that from what I have studied.

    They were not conscious as we are, no; I would not agree with that. I think they were more like advanced animals, with instincts that led them to do things which I think we mistake for consciousness, as we still do with animals today; thinking they are conscious.

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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    Even today, I don't think we realize just how much we " Unconsciously do things!" Just do things without even using our consciousness, so its no impossible thing to imagine a whole race of humans just not using their consciousness, or needing one for that matter.

    I would say at least, at the very least, half the things we do every day, we do NOT use our consciousness to do them! Like " Driving:", for example; when we drive, how much of what we do, are we unconsciously doing them? I would say 50%, at least. We are holding the steering wheel, steering; and we are using our feet to brake or excelerate; all the while looking at the road, and at the same time not driving too close to the curve, while listening to music, while talking on the phone, while looking in the mirror, while looking at the scenery , while combing our hair, while eating something, while thinking about something totally different in our minds, while watching the street lights, while watching the street signs, while looking at your watch! You are NOT using your consciousness to do much of these things, you are " Using your INSTINCTS!"

    And that is similar to what I mean by primordial man using their instincts, but we think they used their consciousness.

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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    Now of course consciousness is an opinion up for grabs in many sciences, especially where animals are concerned; I personally do not view animals as conscious beings; although some of them have such high toned instincts, it " Mimicks consciousness." So there will be disagreement there. I think what we call " Cave Men" in our ancient history, certainly " Mimicked Consciousness", but I disagree that they had the type of consciousness that we hold. And this is important in discussing this topic; I believe the main reason why Primordial man stayed stagnant for so long, or primitive, is because of their " Lack of consciousness", because consciousness led to and created civilization.

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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    Now in my view, Primordial man did not speak, because language is a sign of consciousness; and I don't think they were. Well exactly when did humans begin to speak? The speculations vary; some say around 100,000 years ago. The origin of language must be tied into the origin of consciousness. They have to go hand in hand, which is why I do not believe humans are not from or continous with the idiot hiearchy of speechless apes.Some say language started around 15,000 BC, coinciding with the France cave drawings. I disagree with that; signs and symbols were first used as a written language or ideographic marks to express thoughts, because verbal sounds could not be articulated.

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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
    Now in my view, Primordial man did not speak, because language is a sign of consciousness; and I don't think they were. Well exactly when did humans begin to speak? The speculations vary; some say around 100,000 years ago. The origin of language must be tied into the origin of consciousness. They have to go hand in hand, which is why I do not believe humans are not from or continous with the idiot hiearchy of speechless apes.Some say language started around 15,000 BC, coinciding with the France cave drawings. I disagree with that; signs and symbols were first used as a written language or ideographic marks to express thoughts, because verbal sounds could not be articulated.
    There are several creatures who exhibit definite thought processes and show that they understand that certain actions will cause specific consequences. Tool usage has been demonstrated often.
    And species communicate among themselves as a matter of course.
    I think that demonstrates some level of consciousness. Certainly not to an equal with modern man, of course.

    As man learned to interact with environment and with other men, language and consciousness evolved together, and as consciousness evolved, so did social behavior. I think it all tied together, with each aspect feeding the others.
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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    There are several creatures who exhibit definite thought processes and show that they understand that certain actions will cause specific consequences. Tool usage has been demonstrated often.
    And species communicate among themselves as a matter of course.
    I think that demonstrates some level of consciousness. Certainly not to an equal with modern man, of course.

    As man learned to interact with environment and with other men, language and consciousness evolved together, and as consciousness evolved, so did social behavior. I think it all tied together, with each aspect feeding the others.


    I think it demonstrates a high level of instinct, not consciousness. Consciousness is the governor of behavior , not the mimicking of behavior; and it will provide recognition of self and why self will suffer consequences; and when and where and how and why they will be suffered; animals don't know these things. In example, show me a dog, that knows it is a dog.Show me a dog that knows what city it is in. Show me a dog that knows you are a human. Show me a dog that knows what day it is.

    Well you can't, because they are not conscious of those things.

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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Was Primordial man Conscious as we are conscious?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
    I think it demonstrates a high level of instinct, not consciousness. Consciousness is the governor of behavior , not the mimicking of behavior; and it will provide recognition of self and why self will suffer consequences; and when and where and how and why they will be suffered; animals don't know these things. In example, show me a dog, that knows it is a dog.Show me a dog that knows what city it is in. Show me a dog that knows you are a human. Show me a dog that knows what day it is.

    Well you can't, because they are not conscious of those things.


    And see this is what I mean as consciousness; its first awareness, and self awareness. A dog is not aware that it has 4 legs and two ears. It just knows they are there, it does not know what they are, why they are and why they do what they do for him. It does not know what color it is; its not aware that it has a heart or a lung or a brain; it is not conscious of those things, but some want to give it consciousness of those things. They can't give it, you cannot give an animal self awareness; it does not know its a German Sheppard, it does not know German Sheppards exist! Although it may be one itself.

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