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Thread: Why I've changed opinion on Iraq war.

  1. #21
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    Re: Why I've changed opinion on Iraq war.

    i hope you'll revise your comments after reading it.
    Nope I have always thought fundamentalists if any religon were dangerous nutters that should be watched very carefully.

    He is from Saudi arabia, what did iraq have to do with 911? Even your own 911 commission are saying the same thing that there was no connection.

    Sixthly, we call upon you to end your support of the corrupt leaders in our countries. Do not interfere in our politics and method of education. Leave us alone, or else expect us in New York and Washington.
    The house of saud is hardly a shining example of democracy, 911 is about suadi politics as much as anything else.

    You go after terrorists by breaking up their organisations and cutting off their funds, blowing up the neighbourhood is not a constructive method or one that is likely to cut their support. Following the money trail would have probably been useful but it seems to keep leading back to saudi arabia.

    The middle east is not full of fundamentalist muslims, even the iranians are getting fed up and if left alone would probably change with time.

    As for palestine don't you wonder what makes someone despair so much that they will commit suicide to make their point?

    Don't misunderstand i do not support terrorism and the islamic kind is particularly nasty but this is about whether Iraq was a good idea and i still think it was a very bad one that is going to make things a lot worse.

    Don't forget two thirds of the worlds population are neither christian or muslim. They need the oil as well now so that could get interesting if the US decides to take over the middle east.

    A lot of the apocalyptic prophecies seem to point to a conflagration staring in the middle east who knows what will happen.

    and, you're welcome. there is a Great Britain now only because of the US's winning world war II. GB would have been just another german state if we had not interceded. this isn't even open to debate.
    yeah right, one for a different forum perhaps but, no offence you really need to study some history if you believe that one. The russians would have saved us the us and uk were not allies at the start of ww2, the vast majority of americans were dead against getting involved in another european war for quite understandable reasons and no one actually expected you to join in at the time as there was no real reason why you should. the world was a very different place. l

  2. #22
    Catnip, Stat! anastrophe's Avatar
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    Re: Why I've changed opinion on Iraq war.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc
    As for palestine don't you wonder what makes someone despair so much that they will commit suicide to make their point?
    i don't think it has much to do with despair at all. it has to do with a deeply believed tenet of islam that has been corrupted, then turned round and used to inculcate those who are disposessed, to wit that if you are 'martyred' you go to paradise, and have your pick of nubian virgins or whatever. if you make the afterlife sound a thousand times better than real life, it just encourages people to kill themselves.

    Don't misunderstand i do not support terrorism and the islamic kind is particularly nasty but this is about whether Iraq was a good idea and i still think it was a very bad one that is going to make things a lot worse.
    as i said, history will tell. let's touch-base a decade from now...



    yeah right, one for a different forum perhaps but, no offence you really need to study some history if you believe that one. The russians would have saved us
    not bloody likely. they were a bit busy saving their own hides, thank you very much. stalin, to put it bluntly, wouldn't have given a fart to save england.

    the us and uk were not allies at the start of ww2, the vast majority of americans were dead against getting involved in another european war
    so what? are you suggesting that because public opinion may have been generally against it, therefore we should not have gotten involved? that's the worst example of tyranny of the majority i can think of. there are times when what is Right is more important than what is popular. it seems much of the argument against the iraq war is that it's 'unpopular'. thankfully, the world is not a popularity contest.

    for quite understandable reasons and no one actually expected you to join in at the time as there was no real reason why you should. the world was a very different place. l
    none of what you've written, besides the silly reference to the russians saving you, in any way suggests that you would have won world war II without the massive support of the US, both materially and in forces.

    anyone who thinks hitler would have been turned back without the U.S. is daft. yes, that's ad hominem. oh well. there are times when historical revisionism chafes, to say the least.

  3. #23
    Catnip, Stat! anastrophe's Avatar
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    Re: Why I've changed opinion on Iraq war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Sikes
    I've read that letter - there does indeed seem to be a great deal of truth
    contained in it.
    so, what are you suggesting? because there is truth in it, that means the actions propounded are justified?

  4. #24
    Senior Member Bill Sikes's Avatar
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    Re: Why I've changed opinion on Iraq war.

    gmc> Russians helped in defeating Hitler

    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    they were a bit busy saving their own hides, thank you very much. stalin, to put it bluntly, wouldn't have given a fart to save england.
    Well, that's another "Whoosh!". I'm sure gmc will explain.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Bill Sikes's Avatar
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    Re: Why I've changed opinion on Iraq war.

    Sikes> truth in Bin Laden's "open letter"

    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    so, what are you suggesting? because there is truth in it, that means the actions propounded are justified?
    Do you think that is what I am suggesting?

  6. #26
    Catnip, Stat! anastrophe's Avatar
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    Re: Why I've changed opinion on Iraq war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Sikes
    Sikes> truth in Bin Laden's "open letter"



    Do you think that is what I am suggesting?
    well gee, we can go in circles for hours with that line of response.

    "do you think that that is what i think that you are suggesting?"
    "do you think that that is what i think that you think that i think that you are suggesting?"

    fun!

  7. #27
    Catnip, Stat! anastrophe's Avatar
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    Re: Why I've changed opinion on Iraq war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Sikes
    gmc> Russians helped in defeating Hitler



    Well, that's another "Whoosh!". I'm sure gmc will explain.
    what does 'whoosh!' mean, other than perhaps onomatopoeia for the sound of a fart?

    sure, stalin would have helped england. yeah. helped to rub out most of your population as 'undesireables'. hey, he did it to millions of his own countrymen, why not you?

  8. #28
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    Re: Why I've changed opinion on Iraq war.

    anastrophe

    none of what you've written, besides the silly reference to the russians saving you, in any way suggests that you would have won world war II without the massive support of the US, both materially and in forces.

    anyone who thinks hitler would have been turned back without the U.S. is daft. yes, that's ad hominem. oh well. there are times when historical revisionism chafes, to say the least.
    ______________
    ____

    there are times when historical revisionism chafes, to say the least.
    oh yes.

    Well you would probably have had a europe dominated by russia and uncle joe (as he was lovingly known in the american press at the time) . things would have turned out differently that's for sure. You can't change what happened and arguing about what would have happened is always a bit pointless. There are those who now argue we should have made peace with hitler and kept our empire, after all who needs europe. But you seriously need to read up a bit about what happened during the lead up to us entry to the war, which incidentally had been going on for three over three years before you joined in. Luckily we gave you all the secrets of radar, sonar jet engines etc to help you out otherwise you would have struggled a bit. While you're at it read up about indo china and how the US got dragged in to that one.

    I love debate and I am not trying to be personal so please don't take it that way as that is not my intention.

    What is it you think the war in iraq has done to curb terrorism? This is not a war against a nation state and having the most powerful armed forces on the planet wont stop a terrorist attack in america. Good intelligence does and so does cutting off the oxygen of moral justification.

    ON 911 but the attack was aimed to provoke a reaction. If you really think they believed the US would be paralysed with fear as a result you don't credit them with enough intelligence. On one level fundamentalist can't understand the attitude of the west but bin laden was a western educated engineer who knows america well Stomping all over the middle east is what IMO bin laden wanted you to do. though attacking Iraq may have surprised him. But I doubt very much that he expected you to do nothing. The whole point of present day terrorists is to get a reaction.

    Actually we probably all agree about terrorism with the only area of disagreement being the war in Iraq. i think it is a war being fought for spurious reasons that is making things worse not better. Hard line politics and a gung ho attitude do not work. confrontational US military tactics in Iraq are making things worse as flattening whole towns to get a few insurgents and killing hundreds of innocent people in the process just escalates the whole thing and loses support for the coalition. Rather than copying israeli tactics which you know dont work you could learn a lot from nations that have been sussessfully fighting terrorists for decades.

    There is now real concern that british troops will be placed under american command, they have a whole different approach that doesn't involve flattening everything in sight when attacked. It's ironic, the Black Watch that were going to be home at christmas now look as though they are staying, when they come back they will be disbanded and combined with other regiments in a high tech modern army because they are not needed. pissed off is probably not an adequate description.

    It's not the intention to combat terrorism i have a problem with its the tactics

    i don't think it has much to do with despair at all. it has to do with a deeply believed tenet of islam that has been corrupted, then turned round and used to inculcate those who are disposessed, to wit that if you are 'martyred' you go to paradise, and have your pick of nubian virgins or whatever. if you make the afterlife sound a thousand times better than real life, it just encourages people to kill themselves.
    if you make the afterlife sound a thousand times better than real life, it just encourages people to kill themselves.
    [/QUOTE]

    I suppose that's why according to catholic doctrine (I'm not catholic so I may be wrong here) if you commit suicide you don't go to heaven otherwise they'd all be topping themselves. Bet Ian paisley would love that one.

    Another quick question, if you were palestinian what would you do about israel?


    not bloody likely. they were a bit busy saving their own hides, thank you very much. stalin, to put it bluntly, wouldn't have given a fart to save england.
    Being a non english person I have sympathy for that point of view (smiley showing hysterical laughter, there isn't one so imagine it) no offence bill

  9. #29
    Senior Member Bill Sikes's Avatar
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    Re: Why I've changed opinion on Iraq war.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc
    no offence bill
    Bill? That was anapotrrophe's quote.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Bill Sikes's Avatar
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    Re: Why I've changed opinion on Iraq war.

    Register to remove this ad.
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    what does 'whoosh!' mean, other than perhaps onomatopoeia for the sound of a fart?
    "Whoosh!" is standard Usenet-speak for the sound of something flying over
    someone's head...


    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    sure, stalin would have helped england. yeah. helped to
    rub out most of your population as 'undesireables'. hey, he did it to millions of
    his own countrymen, why not you?
    The point being that if Hitler had not commenced hostilities against the
    Russians, then he would have invaded Britian (Note, Britian, not just
    England). His resources were over-extended by the action in Russia. Had
    he been able to concentrate on Britian, then the result would have been
    a foregone conclusion, and the USA would not have been able or willing to
    do anything about it.

    The course of history would have been completely changed. Perhaps you'd
    now be speaking Japanese.

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