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Thread: Yet another avoidable killing by armed police

  1. #31
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    Re: De Menezes was NOT killed unlawfuly

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Whenever it's done by a police officer on duty and even, on occasion, when he isn't.

    On the other hand there's been permitted collusion, refusal to be questioned, insistence on comparing notes and providing only written statements so as not to be tripped into admissions, utter lies as to whether warnings were called in the carriage - not ONE of the travellers in the carriage was allowed to give evidence at the criminal trial and this inquest is the first time, three years on, when they've been listened to, the deliberate smearing of the guy they shot, the gloating triumphalism of the police after the event. I want the jury to discuss all that and then to say how disgusted they are by the entire feral pack of them. An open verdict is a refusal to let them off the hook.

    After the inquest closes the people who designed the shoot-to-kill response system should be fired, the gloaters should be fired, the system of written statements and collusion and no interviews should be banned, everyone who lied should be named and sacked.
    The one thing that really stood out for me was the blatent lie that he had tried to jump the barrier only to be proved at a later date that he did no such thing and it was a pack of lies.
    A witness on the tube also gave evidence that she went to phone the police because she and another believed the police to be terrorists, thus proving that no warning was given.
    A typical example of gung ho cops who charge in and then have to lie to get out of it at a later date.
    There are so many cover ups in this, surely the jury should return an open verdict?
    The country would have more respect if at least one of them put their hands up and admitted that errors were made that day. Also, to offer the family apology and compensation but instead, as you say, they try to smear the innocent man instead. This happens far too much as we know.
    I hope the family continue's with this until the bitter end. they should immediately lodge complaints of perjury to the police complaints commission who will then be leagally forced into investigating each officer.
    I so hope they don't give up.

  2. #32
    Senior Member OpenMind's Avatar
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    Re: De Menezes was NOT killed unlawfuly

    I would like to see a narrative verdict returned at the very least. I think there has been a statement about who actually shot de Menezes and it was more than one person and that should justify murder. The question becomes whether it is lawful or not.
    The coppers involved have lied so much I think there should be a retrial. It is obvious they did not act according to the correct procedure and that, to me, makes it unlawful killing. Further, in view of the fact that it is known that the coppers have lied, they have perjured the court. This should also go to trial, surely.

  3. #33
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    Re: De Menezes was NOT killed unlawfuly

    Quote Originally Posted by OpenMind View Post
    I would like to see a narrative verdict returned at the very least. I think there has been a statement about who actually shot de Menezes and it was more than one person and that should justify murder. The question becomes whether it is lawful or not.
    The coppers involved have lied so much I think there should be a retrial. It is obvious they did not act according to the correct procedure and that, to me, makes it unlawful killing. Further, in view of the fact that it is known that the coppers have lied, they have perjured the court. This should also go to trial, surely.
    If they have the proof (which they do) that the coppers first stated he jumped the barrier, then the cctv showed he did not, each and every officer should be investigated for perjury. Otherwise, who said he jumped the barrier? It certainly came from them at the time when they tried to first justify their mistake.
    I just hope his family insist on a re-trial.

  4. #34
    Senior Member OpenMind's Avatar
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    Re: De Menezes was NOT killed unlawfuly

    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post
    If they have the proof (which they do) that the coppers first stated he jumped the barrier, then the cctv showed he did not, each and every officer should be investigated for perjury. Otherwise, who said he jumped the barrier? It certainly came from them at the time when they tried to first justify their mistake.
    I just hope his family insist on a re-trial.
    I hope so too.

  5. #35
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    Re: De Menezes was NOT killed unlawfuly

    It won't happen..................

    The Metropolitan Police will not allow it. No member of the public can be permitted to question the actions of the Metropolitan Police "service".


    Is there a distinction between unlawful and illegal?
    An ye harm none, do what ye will....

  6. #36
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    Re: De Menezes was NOT killed unlawfuly

    Quote Originally Posted by Chookie View Post
    It won't happen..................

    The Metropolitan Police will not allow it. No member of the public can be permitted to question the actions of the Metropolitan Police "service".


    Is there a distinction between unlawful and illegal?
    Trust me.....They can and it's been done.
    All it takes is a formal complaint of perjury to the Police Complaints Commission and they legally have to investigate.
    Weather they investigate in the complainents favour is a different matter but it's easy to do.

  7. #37
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    Re: De Menezes was NOT killed unlawfuly

    Quote Originally Posted by Chookie View Post
    It won't happen..................

    The Metropolitan Police will not allow it. No member of the public can be permitted to question the actions of the Metropolitan Police "service".


    Is there a distinction between unlawful and illegal?
    It's pretty much the same. But it's a matter of law, not facts of the case.

    The coroner/ Judge and the jury have two different roles in the judiciary. The judge decides whether the circumstances under "Law" justisfy a particular responce. The jury decides on "facts" of the said case as to guilt by the recommendations under Law given to them.

    The judge has found that with all the circumstances surrounding this case the facts do not add up to "Murder" under the law. That's why he has directed the jury to consider the facts of the case because under the law they only have three options.

    Agreed. Since when did pumping 7 bullets at point blank range into an innocent man, become 'lawful'?
    I find this a very strange comment coming from one so deeply involved with Vetrans. Think about it. If I was to say that soldiers were just Lawful murderers santioned by the state what would you say to that? Now look at your terrorism laws and you should come up with the same outcome and responce.
    These men were santioned by the state under laws of parliament to perform a particular duty. they did that . There was a mistake made and that does not justify unlawful killing because it was not unlawful.

    The result of Charles De Menezes inquest does not surprise me in the slightest.
    Are you inferring the coroner is corrupt?

    Weather they investigate in the complainents favour is a different matter but it's easy to do.
    Are you inferring the police complaints commission is corrupt?

  8. #38
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: De Menezes was NOT killed unlawfuly

    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post
    The result of Charles De Menezes inquest does not surprise me in the slightest.

    Unlawful killing verdict ruled out in De Menezes inquest as coroner tells jury: 'He wasn't murdered' | Mail Online
    I'm surprised it was just his family that walked out - the jury should have as well.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: De Menezes was NOT killed unlawfuly

    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post
    If they have the proof (which they do) that the coppers first stated he jumped the barrier, then the cctv showed he did not, each and every officer should be investigated for perjury. Otherwise, who said he jumped the barrier? It certainly came from them at the time when they tried to first justify their mistake.
    I just hope his family insist on a re-trial.
    I fear the journalist have not "revealed their sources" and the claim is unsubstantiated hearsay.

    They have, however, admitted to altering their notes and thus changing their evidence - that must count as perjury.

  10. #40
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    Re: De Menezes was NOT killed unlawfuly

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    I don't understand you guys .............how can an Act of parliament be unlawful? these people were given the right under the law to apprehend and to exercise full force. They exercised that right. It's impossible for it to be an unlawful killing.

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