Make these ads go away.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: The name and the number os the beast

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    30
    Local Date
    02-25-2020
    Local Time
    08:26 AM

    The name and the number os the beast

    Dears, peace to all those

    Any of you did know that in the year 380 Wycliffe used "IHU" instead of "JESUS", and Gutenberg, in the year 1454. used "IHESUS" instead of "JESUS" and in the year 1611 the 47 experts in Greek, Hebrew and English used "IESVS" instead of "JESUS" in the KJV 1611?

    The above is not too hard to find out using the web mostly in the "images" option, if any wants the links email to josecadena@cantv.net

    I must tell to all of you that I was kicked out of the forum "Talk Jesus" because I post this, and I was insulted by the manager of that forum

  2. #2
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brigstow
    Posts
    36,550
    Local Date
    02-25-2020
    Local Time
    12:26 PM

    Re: The name and the number os the beast

    Wycliffe's use occurred by 1382 when his translation was first published, not "380". I think you dropped a "1".

    There was no letter J, U or W in the latin alphabet. It's generally considered that Wycliffe used "IHU" as an abbreviation.

    The Oxford English Dictionary etymology says this:
    during the ME. period regularly used in its OF. (objective) form Iesu (Jesu). The (L. nom.) form Iesus (Jesus) was rare in ME., but became the regular Eng. form in 16th c. Yet in Tindale's New Test., 1525-34, the form Iesu was generally used where the Gr. has {capital}{iota} {eta} {sigma} {omicron} {upsilon}{accent}, the Vulgate Iesu, in the vocative and oblique cases. This was, as a rule, retained by Coverdale 1535, and in the Great Bible 1539, also, in the vocative instances, in the Bishops' Bible 1568; but in representing the Gr. oblique cases, this has Iesus.

    Iesu disappeared from the Geneva 1557 (except in one place), and from the Rhemish 1582, and the version of 1611.

    Jesu was frequent in the earlier forms of the Book of Common Prayer [which dates from 1549], and survives in one place; in later use it occurs in hymns, rarely in nom. or obj., but frequently in the vocative. In hymns, the possessive Jesus' is commonly sung.

    In ME. the name was rarely written in full, being usually represented by the abbreviations ihu, and ihc, ihs, ihus, or ihu{accent}, etc.: see IHS. These have been commonly expanded by modern editors as Ihesu, Ihesus, forms which occur occasionally in MSS. and in early 16th c. printed books.
    Welcome to ForumGarden.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    England's troubles will increase until the bishops open Joanna Southcott's box.
    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Gabriola Island BC
    Posts
    5,671
    Local Date
    02-25-2020
    Local Time
    04:26 AM

    Re: The name and the number os the beast

    iesous

    Welcome to the forum.

    Shalom
    Ted

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    30
    Local Date
    02-25-2020
    Local Time
    08:26 AM

    Re: The name and the number os the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Wycliffe's use occurred by 1382 when his translation was first published, not "380". I think you dropped a "1".
    Dear thank you for your time, about the dates I just wanted to mean "around those years".

    The real point in the post was to make clear that the readers of those days didn't know "JESUS" as you and me know today, and therefore they didn't claim to "JESUS".

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    There was no letter J, U or W in the latin alphabet.
    I didn't mean the "latin" alphabet but the "english" alphabet which had the "J" character, you can see it in the KJV 1611 in several places, for instance, at the top of the leave of chapter 22, where appears "CHAP.XX.ij", in Bibles of the 1540 to 1578 for sure appears "Jairo". There is a link where those leaves are shown.

    En the Spanish Biblia del Cántaro of the year 1602 in the passage Matthew 17:5 is written: ".. MI HIJO AMADO....", but the writer [Cipriano de Valera] didn't use it for writing "JESÚS": he wrote "IESVS"


    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    It's generally considered that Wycliffe used "IHU" as an abbreviation.

    In ME. the name was rarely written in full, being usually represented by the abbreviations ihu, and ihc, ihs, ihus, or ihu{accent}, etc.: see IHS. These have been commonly expanded by modern editors as Ihesu, Ihesus, forms which occur occasionally in MSS. and in early 16th c. printed books.[/indent]Welcome to ForumGarden.
    How could be saved if the apostol Paul [and the others] would have not given to us the exact name in which men can be saved?

    There is site that shows clearly who really are IHU, IHS, Ihesus; those who want to read that shocking document, please email to josecadena@cantv.net

  5. #5
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brigstow
    Posts
    36,550
    Local Date
    02-25-2020
    Local Time
    12:26 PM

    Re: The name and the number os the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by iesous View Post
    I didn't mean the "latin" alphabet but the "english" alphabet which had the "J" character, you can see it in the KJV 1611 in several places, for instance, at the top of the leave of chapter 22, where appears "CHAP.XX.ij"
    That's slightly different. The lowercase "j" there is a numbering device, not a consonant. The J j types are not used in the Bible of 1611 as letters. By 1640 the differentiation was well established but even into the 1800s I and J were still being used for the consonant value in printed English books.

    The Oxford English Dictionary, again: "In printing manuscripts or reprinting books produced before the differentiation of I and J, the earlier I has been treated in two different ways. The earlier editors, in most cases, introduced the modern usage into their texts, changing the I of the archetype, when it stood for the consonant, into J. Later editors more usually aim at reproducing the actual form of the original, and retain I with its twofold value." - I hope that's interesting to you.

    I mentioned the Latin alphabet because you'd mentioned the Gutenberg Bible, which is a latin text.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    England's troubles will increase until the bishops open Joanna Southcott's box.
    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Gabriola Island BC
    Posts
    5,671
    Local Date
    02-25-2020
    Local Time
    04:26 AM

    Re: The name and the number os the beast

    iesous

    I've just visited that forum. There is no point to my even trying to get on. I am a Christian pluralist and they would ban me immediately. I looked at one thread on Roman Catholicism and found it appalling.

    As far as the name Jesus goes I really don't think that God would care whether or not we got the name exactly correct. The basis of the name is Joshua or Yeshua. What is important is that we live in a developing transforming relationship with the risen Lord.

    Shalom
    Ted

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    13,535
    Local Date
    02-25-2020
    Local Time
    12:26 PM

    Re: The name and the number os the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    iesous

    Welcome to the forum.

    Shalom
    Ted
    I would echo that but bear in mind on this forum you may find some who do not share your world view. Enjoy the arguments but don't take things personally if someone disagrees with you.

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    30
    Local Date
    02-25-2020
    Local Time
    08:26 AM

    Re: The name and the number os the beast

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    That's slightly different. The lowercase "j" there is a numbering device, not a consonant. The J j types are not used in the Bible of 1611 as letters. By 1640 the differentiation was well established but even into the 1800s I and J were still being used for the consonant value in printed English books.

    The Oxford English Dictionary, again: "In printing manuscripts or reprinting books produced before the differentiation of I and J, the earlier I has been treated in two different ways. The earlier editors, in most cases, introduced the modern usage into their texts, changing the I of the archetype, when it stood for the consonant, into J. Later editors more usually aim at reproducing the actual form of the original, and retain I with its twofold value." - I hope that's interesting to you.
    In the web one can find leaves of Geneva Bible (leaf_geneva.jpg); the one that I have is "THE EPISTLE OF PAUL TO THE COLOSSIANS" in which appears "IESVS" but at the margin was used "J" in "John" with not gottic font. In the King James 1611 one can see at Luke Chapter VIII (leaf_kingjames1611_luke.jpg) "Jairus daughter" and in "rejected" in a non gottic font. In the spanish Biblia del Oso of year 1569 Matthew 17:5 was written "HIIO AMADO" but 33 years later (1602, which is before 1611) the J was used: "HIJO AMADO". Without any doubt, in those years the J character was used as a character for names, both J & j. The spanish "I" sounds very diferent than the spanish "J". I have read that the KJV translators consulted the spanish Bibles

    I can't show the leaves which I am commenting because I still don't have the number of posts stablished as rule, but I can supply the links to those who want them.
    Last edited by iesous; 06-22-2007 at 06:40 AM. Reason: to include "later"

  9. #9
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brigstow
    Posts
    36,550
    Local Date
    02-25-2020
    Local Time
    12:26 PM

    Re: The name and the number os the beast

    Have a look at http://www.greatsite.com/images/facs...KJ_detail3.gif - that's a facsimile page from the 1611 King James version.

    You'll see "Chap. j" where "j" is not a consonant, it's a numeric "one". That's a convention of the time.

    You'll see that there are two styles of capital I. The one used in "Iohn" is undecorated. It's a capital I used as a consonant, in today's style we'd employ a J in its place. It's a typographic artifact of the time. It's not a matter of spelling so much as what the typesetters thought was correct.

    The other capital I is decorated and it shows, for example, in Verse 49 "And behold, I send the promise" (top right). It looks very like a modern-day J and not at all like a capital I. It's again a typographic style of the time. It's a vowel as opposed to a consonant.

    Do show your facsimile images when you can, we can discuss those as well.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    England's troubles will increase until the bishops open Joanna Southcott's box.
    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    30
    Local Date
    02-25-2020
    Local Time
    08:26 AM

    Re: The name and the number os the beast

    Register to remove this ad.
    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Have a [I remove this link because it didn't allow me to post] that's a facsimile page from the 1611 King James version.

    You'll see "Chap. j" where "j" is not a consonant, it's a numeric "one". That's a convention of the time.

    You'll see that there are two styles of capital I. The one used in "Iohn" is undecorated. It's a capital I used as a consonant, in today's style we'd employ a J in its place. It's a typographic artifact of the time. It's not a matter of spelling so much as what the typesetters thought was correct.

    The other capital I is decorated and it shows, for example, in Verse 49 "And behold, I send the promise" (top right). It looks very like a modern-day J and not at all like a capital I. It's again a typographic style of the time. It's a vowel as opposed to a consonant.

    Do show your facsimile images when you can, we can discuss those as well
    .
    If to the end of the line texto-recepto.iespana.es/ is added one of the leaves (leaf_kingjames1611_luke.jpg; leaf_geneva.jpg) will be shown the facsimile of those leaves (don't use www)


    Beside the "J" characters also the "W" appears in those Bibles, also appears in facsmiles of Wycliffe's as early as 1382

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. The Beast of Kandahar
    By Saint_ in forum Electronic Gadgets Galore
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-09-2009, 11:11 AM
  2. Truth about 666, the beast and the seal of beast
    By nickols_k in forum General Religious Discussions
    Replies: 212
    Last Post: 07-10-2008, 07:26 AM
  3. Why is Mahmoud Abbas the Beast of Revelation 13?
    By ephraim in forum General Religious Discussions
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 01-19-2008, 05:47 PM
  4. The Beast Within
    By lanaia74 in forum Poetry & Writing Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-14-2006, 06:02 AM
  5. Led Zeplin is number 4/Garth Brooks is number 3
    By LottomagicZ4941 in forum General Music
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-04-2006, 01:27 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts