Make these ads go away.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 55

Thread: 14 million illegal immigrants in the US

  1. #21
    Zero mod strikes. HAH!!! YZGI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Middle America
    Posts
    11,531
    Local Date
    12-08-2019
    Local Time
    05:24 PM

    Re: 14 million illegal immigrants in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    So what I'm checking for is whether $1.9 billion a year is spent on the food stamp program to illegal immigrant families, and we assume (but we aren't concerned, while looking) that the reason they qualify is that a child was born in the USA and is consequently a citizen. That's right? As a scratch number (at $500 a month) that's 300,000 qualifying bodies, one citizen child's food stamps being claimed for per forty illegal immigrants? Tell me if my numbers make sense so far.
    Go for it.

    I really don't have a pony in this race, I just found the other side (so to speak) because you asked for it.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Lon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    CALIFORNIA
    Posts
    9,507
    Local Date
    12-09-2019
    Local Time
    12:24 PM

    Re: 14 million illegal immigrants in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    I offer a peer-reviewed academic analysis of the taxing of undocumented immigrants and their cost to social services. Would you like me to press further still and turn up actual numbers, or is this sufficient?

    If you feel the paper's wrong, it would help if a statement of equivalent weight showed an alternative viewpoint. I think a paper presented in the Tax Lawyer and the Harvard Latino Law Review should be considered respectable and assumed to be well researched and vetted.

    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...ract_id=881584
    Abstract:

    Americans believe that undocumented immigrants are exploiting the United States' economy. The widespread belief is that illegal aliens cost more in government services than they contribute to the economy. This belief is undeniably false. [E]very empirical study of illegals' economic impact demonstrates the opposite . . .: undocumenteds actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services. Moreover, undocumented immigrants contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs. Eighty-five percent of eminent economists surveyed have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (seventy-four percent) or neutral (eleven percent) impact on the U.S. economy.

    Undocumented immigrants, like all U.S. citizens and residents, are required to pay taxes. Despite the historic and strong American opposition to taxation without representation, undocumented immigrants (except in rare and unusual cases) have not enjoyed the right to vote on any local, state or federal tax or other matter for almost eighty years. Nevertheless, each year undocumented immigrants add billions of dollars in sales, excise, property, income and payroll taxes, including Social Security, Medicare and unemployment taxes, to federal, state and local coffers. Hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants go out of their way to file annual federal and state income tax returns.

    Yet undocumented immigrants are barred from almost all government benefits, including food stamps, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, Medicaid, federal housing programs, Supplemental Security Income, Unemployment Insurance, Social Security, Medicare, and the earned income tax credit (EITC). Generally, the only benefits federally required for undocumented immigrants are emergency medical care, subject to financial and category eligibility, and elementary and secondary public education. Many undocumented immigrants will not even access these few critical government services because of their ever-present fear of government officials and deportation.
    Good analysis-------I did some checking on my own and what I dug up from the "Brookings Institute" confirms the Harvard analysis. Still, something makes me feel that they are missing something.

  3. #23
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brigstow
    Posts
    36,039
    Local Date
    12-08-2019
    Local Time
    11:24 PM

    Re: 14 million illegal immigrants in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by YZGI View Post
    Go for it.

    I really don't have a pony in this race, I just found the other side (so to speak) because you asked for it.
    Okay, I'm in the ballpark with that last post.

    CIS acknowledges that the average value of most benefits received by immigrant-headed households — TANF/general assistance, food stamps, and SSI — fell substantially between 1996 and 2001. For example, the average annual value of food stamp benefits received by immigrant-headed households fell from $216 in 1996 to $104 in 2001.

    http://www.cbpp.org/4-14-03wel.htm

    One child citizen family member in forty illegal immigrants was what I'd guestimated. That average figure of $104 per year /2001 suggests that at $6000 a year food stamp value for a full entitlement it's one child citizen family member in just under sixty illegal immigrants. Given that I was working in my head and using rough rounding I'm fairly close, given that the totals are for different years anyway.

    There's an overwhelming list of references in that paper I turned up, I'm quite happy to mine it for instances and confirmation to my OP suggestion. The main thrust is that much of the work isn't cash-in-hand, it's taxed. Tax payment receipts are a requirement for naturalization and they're valued. Many of the few benefits available aren't taken up for fear of exposure to the government. The net balance of benefit is to the government, financially, not to the illegal immigrants. If we go much further I'll refine that term "illegal immigrant" into sub-categories for exactness.

    As an aside, most of them are guilty of a misdemeanor rather than a felony by being in the country.

    Are we past this "they cost us" notion yet? Can we go on to "they're criminal scum" or do we still have doubters to persuade?

    Here's my next contention to you all to consider while you're deciding on the financial bit.

    The large majority of illegal immigrants to the USA are criminal solely by the definition that they jumped the border, outstayed their visa or are working without a work permit.

    Do we have any dissenters to that statement?
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    England's troubles will increase until the bishops open Joanna Southcott's box.
    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    In the middle of the Arizona desert
    Posts
    15,903
    Local Date
    12-08-2019
    Local Time
    04:24 PM

    Re: 14 million illegal immigrants in the US

    With all due respect to Harvard, I am not convinced.

  5. #25
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brigstow
    Posts
    36,039
    Local Date
    12-08-2019
    Local Time
    11:24 PM

    Re: 14 million illegal immigrants in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGlitter View Post
    With all due respect to Harvard, I am not convinced.
    Would it help if I produced a footnote or two? It would have their references to their main argument and make things easier to check. They haven't just sprung this statement out of thin air, they're academic analysts with a huge stake in making accurate and supportable statements.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    England's troubles will increase until the bishops open Joanna Southcott's box.
    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    In the middle of the Arizona desert
    Posts
    15,903
    Local Date
    12-08-2019
    Local Time
    04:24 PM

    Re: 14 million illegal immigrants in the US

    I just doubt their statistics is all. I mean, they could say anything and I wouldn't know if it was true or not.
    Illegals are still a burden on our society. Harvard's numbers don't change that for me.

  7. #27
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brigstow
    Posts
    36,039
    Local Date
    12-08-2019
    Local Time
    11:24 PM

    Re: 14 million illegal immigrants in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGlitter View Post
    I just doubt their statistics is all. I mean, they could say anything and I wouldn't know if it was true or not.
    Illegals are still a burden on our society. Harvard's numbers don't change that for me.
    What would you trust, as far as real numbers are concerned?

    What tells you that illegals are still a burden on our society? Is this observational, or gut instinct, or other people's numbers, or faith?
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    England's troubles will increase until the bishops open Joanna Southcott's box.
    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    In the middle of the Arizona desert
    Posts
    15,903
    Local Date
    12-08-2019
    Local Time
    04:24 PM

    Re: 14 million illegal immigrants in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    What would you trust, as far as real numbers are concerned?

    What tells you that illegals are still a burden on our society? Is this observational, or gut instinct, or other people's numbers, or faith?
    I'm really not sure whose numbers I would trust...possibly government numbers although that's amusing as I don't trust the government as many here know...

    I tend to go by what I have seen myself...how it is where I live and other places I have been, the times I've been in emergency rooms and doctors offices to see the treatment they've received...I realize that's not a complete observation as I only see my view of it but that's more what I tend to go on, that and (eek) governmental statistics of which I do not have any at hand to post at present. Not trying to argue, just trying to explain myself.

  9. #29
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brigstow
    Posts
    36,039
    Local Date
    12-08-2019
    Local Time
    11:24 PM

    Re: 14 million illegal immigrants in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGlitter View Post
    I'm really not sure whose numbers I would trust...possibly government numbers although that's amusing as I don't trust the government as many here know...

    I tend to go by what I have seen myself...how it is where I live and other places I have been, the times I've been in emergency rooms and doctors offices to see the treatment they've received...I realize that's not a complete observation as I only see my view of it but that's more what I tend to go on, that and (eek) governmental statistics of which I do not have any at hand to post at present. Not trying to argue, just trying to explain myself.
    I'd grant that your observation is typical of what's to be seen, but why do you think the cost of that exceeds illegal immigrant tax payments? Nobody's suggested that your observations are inaccurate.

    The problem with relying on government figures is that the US government doesn't count a lot of things, deliberately so as not to let people make informed judgments. Like homeless people, if you need a prime example. That's why non-government agencies and academic researchers have to do the counting instead of quoting the government figures.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    England's troubles will increase until the bishops open Joanna Southcott's box.
    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  10. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    In the middle of the Arizona desert
    Posts
    15,903
    Local Date
    12-08-2019
    Local Time
    04:24 PM

    Re: 14 million illegal immigrants in the US

    Register to remove this ad.
    Hmm. I suppose I'm just not trusting because there may be an agenda behind it. I don't know what Harvard may have as an agenda but the idea of value being worth more than burden just doesn't "seem" right to me. I don't think I can explain that adequately.

    I am also concerned people would see Harvard's study and decide that it's okay to have illegals here because they may not be a burden. That's not to say I want the numbers skewed to meet my desires at all. It's also not a reason I feel the way I do. I'm just offering it up.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 56 suspected illegal immigrants at McDonalds
    By RedGlitter in forum Current Events
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-03-2007, 08:15 PM
  2. Towns Rethink Laws Against Illegal Immigrants
    By RedGlitter in forum Current Events
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09-27-2007, 06:16 PM
  3. Scottish illegal immigrants!
    By meltonpie in forum General Chit Chat
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 01-22-2007, 12:34 PM
  4. Another Raid on Illegal Immigrants
    By Sheryl in forum Current Events
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-13-2006, 07:03 AM
  5. Don't Like This: Guide For Illegal Immigrants
    By CVX in forum Immigration
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-06-2005, 03:38 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts