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Thread: JonBenet Ramsey case

  1. #21
    Banned Momus's Avatar
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    Re: JonBenet Ramsey case

    Quote Originally Posted by magentaflame View Post
    Two things there,.......and before i go further i only know the story because of cherry picking of the media.
    The 'santa' you refer to. Peodoes often befriend parents of children to gain access to a child.its very common. They will usually part take in activities that children are involved in to gain access.
    Further more, my words were " Most do not know the parents when they abduct and murder a child at random." Pedophile's do often befriend the parent to get access to the children, , correct, but i did not say pedophile. I said 'abduct and murder'. Those words indicate i am talking about a killer. Pedophiles will befriend parents in order to groom and sexually assault a child, true. This is a case of murder, not sexual abuse. Therefore, i do not believe that santa knowing the parents well, would have betrayed them in such a horrific manner. I use the word abduct, as the Ramsey's stated that the suitcase found by the basement window, was not there before. It is also claimed that Helgorth bragged to friends prior, that he was about to come into big bucks. It's possible that the theory of them attempting to abduct the child and hold the Ramsey's to a ransom, is the true account of events. JB for a child, was well known to all in her county as the star of beauty pageants. Just the sort of treasure, that the wealthy would indeed pay a ransom to get back. It's possible, the plan failed down in the basement, when they believed she had died from the head injury.

  2. #22
    Senior Member magentaflame's Avatar
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    Re: JonBenet Ramsey case

    Yeah, cant see that happening though. You stated the parents not having the piece of mind to stage such a scene. I cant see abductors dong the same if the crime was botched.
    The injuries to that child, in my opinion, were deliberate not frenzied. Someone definatelt wanted that child dead. I dont think there was torture before death, but a fantasy being acted out.
    Would be interesting to compare other crimes similar to this one worldwide.
    Abductors dont bring that kind of equipment to abduct someone......the ligiture doesnt fit an abduction.

  3. #23
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    Re: JonBenet Ramsey case

    Quote Originally Posted by magentaflame View Post
    Yeah, cant see that happening though. You stated the parents not having the piece of mind to stage such a scene. I cant see abductors dong the same if the crime was botched.
    The injuries to that child, in my opinion, were deliberate not frenzied. Someone definatelt wanted that child dead. I dont think there was torture before death, but a fantasy being acted out.
    Would be interesting to compare other crimes similar to this one worldwide.
    Abductors dont bring that kind of equipment to abduct someone......the ligiture doesnt fit an abduction.
    You are missing the point entirely here. It is inconceivable for the parents to defile the body. Remember, the theory of the police, being that either Patsy Ramsey or the brother Burke had lashed out at JB in anger, causing the smashed skull, and then the parents defiled her corpse in order to make it appear that she had fallen prey to a sexual assault and murder. ie, their actions following the lashing out at her, would be actions to cover up, and not to perform any sick act on her. On the other hand, Helgorth and his accomplice, would not be covering up an accident of lashing out, but carrying out the torture for real, had either one, or both of them, been a sick pedophile. The original investigators agree the mark on her face could have been a stun gun, and used to immobilise her when they took her from her bed where she was sleeping. Have you seen the size of a stun gun ? They are the size of a regular hand held torch and small enough to put in a pocket upon leaving, hence no stun gun at the scene. If they stunned her in her bedroom after getting into the house through the basement window, and it was a planned abduction for ransom, they could have carried her down to the basement to leave by the basement window, the same as they came in. Their was a shoe imprint found in the snow outside the basement window that has never been traced. Once down in the basement with her, one or both may have decided to have some fun and torture her after they found they couldn't get her back through the window. The paint brush was not brought with them, but was belonging to the Ramsey's, which means it would have been used at the scene as it was to hand. The size of the house could also mean, that they could have carried this out in the basement without being heard or seen. Something went wrong down in that basement but for myself, i believe it was a botched abduction for ransom.

  4. #24
    Senior Member magentaflame's Avatar
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    Re: JonBenet Ramsey case

    Im not pointing the finger at anyone.im just playing devils advocate based on mmy own knowledge of criminal activities and incidents ive been shown and involved in over many years.

    I noticed on one of those autopsy photos, one of the members put a photo up of Jon whilst still alive and she seemed to have the same kind of 'stun gun markings on her legs .

    I dont know .....im only going off the research material you provided.and what ive heard over the years .

    Personally i believe they'll never find the perp because theyre not meant to.

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    Re: JonBenet Ramsey case

    Quote Originally Posted by magentaflame View Post
    Im not pointing the finger at anyone.im just playing devils advocate based on mmy own knowledge of criminal activities and incidents ive been shown and involved in over many years.

    I noticed on one of those autopsy photos, one of the members put a photo up of Jon whilst still alive and she seemed to have the same kind of 'stun gun markings on her legs .

    I dont know .....im only going off the research material you provided.and what ive heard over the years .

    Personally i believe they'll never find the perp because theyre not meant to.
    I did not say anywhere that she had stun gun markings on her legs. Why do you continue to fail to read and absorb? She did have markings on her legs but nowhere have experts, autopsy or police officers, reported the marks on her legs, were from a stun gun and neither did i. I stated one of the marks that indicated a stun gun had been used, was on her face by her ear. Have you seen all of the autopsy photographs? If you also read her full autopsy report, it's recorded that she had abrasion and vascular congestion of vaginal mucosa. It does not confirm she was sexually abused but was apparently consistent with her vagina being scraped roughly. A pubic hair was found on her body that did not match any of the Ramsey's. The abrasions on her legs and body in autopsy were attributed to her being dragged along the basement floor. She had DNA evidence under her fingernails that also do not match any of the Ramsey's. The official conclusion was that she died of the strangulation and not the head injury and that would say, she was not necessarily rendered unconscious by the blow to the head. Without the strangulation, she would have died eventually from the head injury, as swelling to the brain was in process. She was found with duct tape over her mouth, indicating that she was conscious in that basement and in danger of screaming and being heard. The rope and duct tape were not the Ramsey's either but could suggest, the intruders arrived with them and left with them as an abduction kit for a pre-planned kidnap. What is clear after 20 years, is the incompetence of the police in failing to secure the murder scene and contaminating evidence. The single factor to the finger of suspicion being pointed at the Ramsey's is the undigested pineapple in her stomach. Forensics claimed from this, that she ate the pineapple an hour and a half before her death when the Ramsey's were in the house after coming home. They now know that digestion can vary between different people and this time estimation could now be false.

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    Re: JonBenet Ramsey case

    It appears, one must partake of a slice of humble pie. I downloaded the final installment and viewed it last night. I was wrong, very wrong. The new evidence and forensic advancements over the past 20 years, have convinced me who the killer was. I won't give the game away as some here may not have seen it yet, so i will just say, i was wrong and it was, someone in that Ramsey house, after all.

  7. #27
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    Re: JonBenet Ramsey case

    Quote Originally Posted by magentaflame View Post
    Im not pointing the finger at anyone.im just playing devils advocate based on mmy own knowledge of criminal activities and incidents ive been shown and involved in over many years.

    I noticed on one of those autopsy photos, one of the members put a photo up of Jon whilst still alive and she seemed to have the same kind of 'stun gun markings on her legs .

    I dont know .....im only going off the research material you provided.and what ive heard over the years .

    Personally i believe they'll never find the perp because theyre not meant to.
    They covered that. The marks did not match the stun gun. That piece of evidence shot down my favorite notion of what happened.
    However, I still hold that the boy did it, accidentally, and the dad made a grand effort to make it look like an outsider had done it.

    The mom slept through the whole event, and never had a clue.
    "The trouble with people isn't that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so." - Will Rogers
    "Truth isn't Truth" - Rudy Giuliani

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    Re: JonBenet Ramsey case

    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    They covered that. The marks did not match the stun gun. That piece of evidence shot down my favorite notion of what happened.
    However, I still hold that the boy did it, accidentally, and the dad made a grand effort to make it look like an outsider had done it.

    The mom slept through the whole event, and never had a clue.
    You are correct Sir. Only the boy did not do it accidentally, it was in rage, and the parents covered up. I have to say, i am shocked. I always believed that the parents would not have been able to hold a same thought process after knowing their child had killed their daughter, and it just shows how wrong i was. They found a hand held torch on the kitchen counter that night. Police did originally believe that she was struck with this as it was next to that bowl of pineapple, that was digesting in her system. I never believed, that an 8 year old could smash a skull to that degree but a reconstruction, on a similar aged skull, covered with skin and hair, produced the exact same injury found in her skull, which was an odd shaped hole, and split running through to the back. She had no abrasion, cuts or blood on the scalp and that threw me off also. The pathologist showed that with a young child, as the head of the torch struck her,making the hole, the scalp would yield into the hole, with the blow and then retain it's shape. He also showed that for a child of her age, it would not take a great force to create that injury to her skull. This explains a lot. The torch next to the bowl of pineapple, explains away the undigested pineapple in her stomach, so it would appear, that some kind of fallout between the brother and sister took place at that counter. When he aligned the torch with the skull injury, the hole and torch matched exactly. The most damning new evidence came from enhancement of the emergency call Patsy Ramsey made reporting her daughter had been kidnapped and was missing. When she made that call, she believed that she had hung up, but there was several seconds where she didn't know, the operator was still on the line and could hear background conversation. The operator was never contacted once by the police at the time, but she always insisted, after Patsy believed she had hung up, she heard her say " ok we've called the police, now what?" There was then a short conversation that for twenty years, was inaudible. The Ramsey's always insisted that the boy was asleep in bed when they got home and found the ransom letter and he slept through everything. With advancements in technology, they now have been able to refine and amplify the short conversation. I listened to the advancement on headphones and you can clearly hear, John Ramsey say " we're not talking to you", followed by Patsy Ramsey saying " what did you do, oh Jesus help me?" This was followed by the boy saying " what did you find?". The boy was not in bed asleep after all. His voice is plain as day on that tape, talking to his parents. The pathologist stated it was the blow that killed her and not the strangulation but she was immediately brain dead from the blow, with the heart still functioning for a short time as the brain was dying. That explains the ligature marks on her neck. In his interview, Burke Ramsey now in his twenties, naturally denies any involvement but that tape is damning right now. I am shocked at how the Ramsey's could go from distraught, to calm and clever, back to distraught, yet it appears, they did.

  9. #29
    Senior Member magentaflame's Avatar
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    Re: JonBenet Ramsey case

    Gut feeling here...... still doesnt sound right.

    Have all police reports been released to the public?
    Not just initial reports but homocide as well?
    The tape means nothing to me because because you can hear it either way. If the boy is oblivious to whats going on , he could still say those words over something else entirely.

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    Re: JonBenet Ramsey case

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    Quote Originally Posted by magentaflame View Post
    Gut feeling here...... still doesnt sound right.

    Have all police reports been released to the public?
    Not just initial reports but homocide as well?
    The tape means nothing to me because because you can hear it either way. If the boy is oblivious to whats going on , he could still say those words over something else entirely.
    Don't be ridiculous. The short period of conversation when Patsy believed she had hung up, the operator is repeatedly calling Patsy, Patsy, Patsy. The rest is within that same call. Are you trying to suggest, that a mother phones the emergency services, extremely distraught reporting a kidnapping and a ransom note just found and then 30 seconds later, her and the boy are having an entirely different conversation about something else.?

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