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Thread: Ontario Referendum On Voting System

  1. #11
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    Re: Ontario Referendum On Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    Really meaty stuff here koan.
    Ever thought what a difference it would make in the US?

    http://accuratedemocracy.com/d_intro.htm

    Effectively much of your electorate is effectively disenfranchised under your present system. We have he same problem you get GW we got TB-except theoretically TB shopuldn't have as much power as a president.

  2. #12
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    Re: Ontario Referendum On Voting System

    I've allready voted no in the advance poll. I would like to see reform but not this as it means 29 additional seats going to unelected MPPs, we have enough unelected senators at the trough.

    I like Australia's system which works because voting is mandatory.
    Last edited by freetobeme; 10-05-2007 at 02:57 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Re: Ontario Referendum On Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by freetobeme View Post
    I've allready voted no in the advance poll. I would like to see reform but not this as it means 29 additional seats going to unelected MPPs, we have enough unelected senators at the trough.

    I like Australia's system which works because voting is mandatory.
    You're missing the point. It's not just the compulsion it's the fact that the system is proportional as well so each vote does count unlike the US canada and the UK. PR terrifies politicians in the main parties because they wouldn't get elected with such big majorities and they know it.


    Inclusive rules elect a broad variety of reps and thus invite a wide range of candidates and issues, attracting a great turnout of voters -- Australians see 90% vote compared with the USA's 50%. Turnout is high also because 83% of the voters help pick the winners.

    (The share of votes needed to win a Senate seat in Australia is 16.6% for each of five seats; 5 × 16.6% = 83%. The quota for five majority winners is just 50% of each district and thus 50% overall. So at least half of U.S. votes are wasted on winner surpluses or on losers; they do not affect the results. In Australia all but 16% of the votes are effective.)

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    Re: Ontario Referendum On Voting System

    IMO this will result in backroom deals, creating virtually permanent minority or coalition governments, and will give and will open the door for more power for to smaller groups or political and religious zealots.

    Australia's electoral system works because they require all people to vote by law, or they are fined and New Zealand is looking at having another referendum to get rid of theirs.

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    Re: Ontario Referendum On Voting System

    posted by freetobeme
    IMO this will result in backroom deals, creating virtually permanent minority or coalition governments, and will give and will open the door for more power for to smaller groups or political and religious zealots.
    What you mean as opposed to having governments on power detested by the majority of the voters that can run roughshod over everyione? Minority rule or coalition so they would have to listen to other points of view and actually take them in to account and you seriously think that is a bad thing?



    In the UK we would not have had Maggie for so long or Tony Blair. Both in the top two of most destructive prime ministers we have ever had.

    Australia's electoral system works because they require all people to vote by law, or they are fined and New Zealand is looking at having another referendum to get rid of theirs.
    That's not coming from the people themselves but rather those who lost their ability to take control.

    http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/speech6662.html

    The future of MMP
    Parliament conducted a review of MMP in 2002 which resulted in virtually no change to the system. While the public are often critical of MMP it is not the burning issue it was during the first coalition government. Kiwis’ inherent sense of fairness means that more of them would rather live with coalition Governments than accept parties winning a majority of the seats with a minority of the votes. A recent survey found a small majority (52%) agree that MMP had been “a good thing for New Zealand”; 37% felt otherwise. More than two thirds thought that MMP would remain New Zealand’s electoral system for the foreseeable future.

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    Re: Ontario Referendum On Voting System

    Well, I'm not British, but I kinda liked Maggie and Blair....

    However, IMO, this type of electoral system is ripe for opening the doors to extremists and religious zealots. Most people respect separation of church and state but there are many who do not, and would work towards changing this. This type of system lends itself to abuse, and could give unmerited political power to smaller, vocal organized minority self interest groups, those who are out to proselytize the world. I would rather have Australia's system and a mandated vote.

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    Re: Ontario Referendum On Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by freetobeme View Post
    Well, I'm not British, but I kinda liked Maggie and Blair....

    However, IMO, this type of electoral system is ripe for opening the doors to extremists and religious zealots. Most people respect separation of church and state but there are many who do not, and would work towards changing this. This type of system lends itself to abuse, and could give unmerited political power to smaller, vocal organized minority self interest groups, those who are out to proselytize the world. I would rather have Australia's system and a mandated vote.
    If I understand you correctly, this is what my mother said as well for her reason to vote "no". But she was a little more honestly blunt in the way she worded it. She didn't want minority opinions to get a voice. Afraid that radical Muslims would elect members that actually get a seat or other "undesirable" political groups. Basically, she said she was against democracy. She only wants "normal people" votes to count.

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    Re: Ontario Referendum On Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by koan View Post
    If I understand you correctly, this is what my mother said as well for her reason to vote "no". But she was a little more honestly blunt in the way she worded it. She didn't want minority opinions to get a voice. Afraid that radical Muslims would elect members that actually get a seat or other "undesirable" political groups. Basically, she said she was against democracy. She only wants "normal people" votes to count.
    Where did I say that?

    I would consider radical zealots who wish to introduce religion and or religious laws into government as 'undesirable'. All people are entitled to a voice but this proposal will empower and enable radical self interest groups when we should be working to ensure that personal religious beliefs do not interfere with the rights of others.

    The answer to a better government is not to give a wider voice to radicals, but to open up gov't by empowering parliamentary committees, removing the privilege of patronage from PMs and Premiers, and making it easier to introduce, debate and pass private members bills. This will lead to more accountability, the ability to consider a wider variety of issues, and decreasing the role of government leaders and their unelected staffs.

  9. #19
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    Re: Ontario Referendum On Voting System

    you didn't say it.

    as I mentioned, those were the words that my mother used. I do think you are saying the same thing though. Hippies were radicals. Some feminists are radicals. Whether we like them or not, if they are citizens, they have a vote and if we don't want it to count we are against democracy.

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    Re: Ontario Referendum On Voting System

    Register to remove this ad.
    Of course all citizens have a right to vote, even hippies LOL but being against MMP doesn't mean one thinks they shouldn't have that right, so please don't project what you want to see.

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