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Thread: Islam - Religion Of Peace?

  1. #1
    anomaly
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    Jester and koan

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester
    I do blame the extremeists for the action they take however Islam is not anything like Judiasm or Christianity.. and muhammed was a maruading filthy pig, i'd even call him a bastard, he was evil incarnate and I have no doubt was motivated by greed and hate and selfishness and to take from those what he wanted even klilling and murdering inncoent people on his climb up over the well to do and the innocent of his time. To pattern a religion after that man is to pattern a government often Adolf Hitler, and a hundred times worse, his very name personifies hate and terrible injustice and the Islamic world from him on have been nothing but takers and destroyers. Islam is a false religion and alie and a distortion of Gods name to include his charcater in the one they call allah. (lower case initial letter used on purpose).

    Islam is a 'religion' (I use that term under protest) of terror and not the religion of peace as it claims.

    And I realize most here wont agree with me and Im sure I'll get brought up as hate speech but I really dont give a dang, I call things as I see them and thats that.
    I take what you said here seriously enough to not want to infract it... I want to debate it. Infractions are for people who are saying something just to be hurtful, you said this because, I fear, you believe it.

    Gather your facts, ponyboy. I want to see links, I want to see reasoning and I aim to show you that your view of Islam is tainted and blind. We both write from the heart and I'm not going to make this about who uses words better, but I added a line to my sig just for you. You want to hold the opinion that Islam and their prophet are all these things then I can't stop that but, damned to hell if I'm going to let you state it like a fact without challenging.

    I know you're busy in the thread this came from so I'll wait.

  2. #2
    Jester2
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    Re: Jester and koan

    Quote Originally Posted by koan View Post
    I take what you said here seriously enough to not want to infract it... I want to debate it. Infractions are for people who are saying something just to be hurtful, you said this because, I fear, you believe it.

    Gather your facts, ponyboy. I want to see links, I want to see reasoning and I aim to show you that your view of Islam is tainted and blind. We both write from the heart and I'm not going to make this about who uses words better, but I added a line to my sig just for you. You want to hold the opinion that Islam and their prophet are all these things then I can't stop that but, damned to hell if I'm going to let you state it like a fact without challenging.

    I know you're busy in the thread this came from so I'll wait.
    arrgggh! I had a lengthy post and the site shut down on me!

    By your fruit you shall beknown... is the easiest way to explain it.

    For more than 17 years I was engaged in the lie of Islam that allowed a people to utterly destroy the lives and wills of other poeple even thier own kind. 'Jihad' its a mantra, a way of getting anything you want and to be given great accolade by those that you may decide to turn on and kill at some future date. I do write form my heart Koan you are right.

    If Islam, and it does, endorse support and encourage the sodomizing of a 3 year old child as a method of killing that child simply because the child is not Islamic, or is the wrong kind of Islam or happend to be the child of a conquered soldier, or someone who disagreed with those Islamicis Men in power then I find it so very easy to say what I said before.

    Muhammad has a history of doing the very same things, like father like son.

    Ive seen the results of torturings so hideous I had to remove myself and throw up, all in the name of Islam and Jihad, and for the most part these were not amaericans they tormented they were thier own kind.

    You call them extretemist I don't.

    I do qualify them as militant and those are the ones I am after in my words as they lean toward killign them.

    The Islam you have seen is the Islam that has been tempered by peaceful societies, or I should say more peaceful societies. But all of Islam came from Muhammad, The fact that a more peaceful version exisits doesnt mean that its beginnings wer not brutal. The main point of the religion keeps a strict order in which men are king and women are treated as less than men to say the least, and more like dogs albeit a pedigree'd one.

    I'll get to my links a bit later.

    But my belief is that Muahmmad was a militant thug, who used a philosphy and a charasmatic advantage to twist decent ideas into his own use and purpose and fomr that was born what we have today...

  3. #3
    anomaly
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    Re: Jester and koan

    The founder of Islam, Muhammad, grew up in the town of Mecca. During his time at the end of the sixth century, his people went from a relatively poor lifestyle to becoming prosperous merchants. The changes that came with wealth caused him some distress. Around 610, during one of the yearly visits to a cave to fast and pray during Ramadan, Muhammad began to receive visions. It is believed that he was spoken to by the angel, Gabriel, come to communicate God's word to his chosen prophet. Muhammad considered suicide, thinking that he was being visited by jinn, but his wife tested the visions and became convinced the source was divine. The messages grew and what is known as the religion of Islam today was not fully formed when it was first presented. The people who followed Muhammad were those disillusioned by the greed that developed from capitalism settling in. They felt disoriented and missed the sense of community that had been lost to individualism.
    Precis p.132, A History Of God, Karen Armstrong

    The beginning, rudimentary teachings were
    Its key themes include the moral responsibility of man towards his creator; the resurrection of dead, God's final judgment followed by vivid descriptions of the tortures in hell and pleasures in Paradise; use of the nature and wonders of everyday life, particularly the phenomenon of man, as signs of God to show the existence of a greater power who will take into account the greed of people and their suppression of the poor. Religious duties required of the believers at this time were few: belief in God, asking for forgiveness of sins, offering frequent prayers, assisting others particularly those in need, rejecting cheating and the love of wealth (considered to be significant in the commercial life of Mecca), being chaste and not to kill new-born girls.
    source

  4. #4
    Jester2
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    Re: Jester and koan

    Here are a few excerpts from a site that records Muslum violence around the world:


    12/5/2007 Russia, Stary Cherek, 1 killed.... A police officer is gunned down by Muslim militants.

    12/5/2007 Somalia, Hiran, 2 killed, 3 injured... Two local soldiers are ambushed and murdered by Islamic militants.

    12/4/2007 Thailand, Narathiwat, 4 killed 20 injured, Four people are killed when Islamists bomb a restaurant, two at the scene and the others in the hospital.

    12/3/2007 India, Anantnag, 1 killed... A 25-year-old civilian is abducted and shot to death by the Harkat-ul-Mujahideen.

    These are four examples from a list of two months of Muslum attacks and it lists the dead and injured data.


    This is what Islam teaches:

    "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, ... nor follow
    the religion of truth... until they pay the tax in acknowledg-ment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."
    Qur'an, Sura 9:29

    How is that peaceful? How do I not fight back agasint this, and these examples are the kindest of what Ive seen them do.

  5. #5
    anomaly
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    Re: Jester and koan

    There are many people killed by non-Muslims too, Jester. And just as Christians argue over interpretation, so do Muslims. No one is saying that Muslims don't kill, what we are talking about is whether or not the religion and their prophet are as you described them in the opening post.

    If you are going to smear an entire religion I expect you to be able to back up your statements. Yes. Muslims have killed people, as do Christians, Pagans, Atheists and random cults. I think Buddhists are the only ones that have a pacifist reputation overall.

    Reread your statement that I quoted and that is what I am waiting to discuss.

  6. #6
    Jester2
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    Re: Jester and koan

    Quote Originally Posted by koan View Post
    There are many people killed by non-Muslims too, Jester. And just as Christians argue over interpretation, so do Muslims. No one is saying that Muslims don't kill, what we are talking about is whether or not the religion and their prophet are as you described them in the opening post.

    If you are going to smear an entire religion I expect you to be able to back up your statements. Yes. Muslims have killed people, as do Christians, Pagans, Atheists and random cults. I think Buddhists are the only ones that have a pacifist reputation overall.

    Reread your statement that I quoted and that is what I am waiting to discuss.
    Its part of my point, Koan, Muslums kill each other on a regular basis because Muhammad perpetuated it with his words. Muslums/Islamists have more to argue amongst themselves than they do with the outside world. And although other religions do it and have done it, all of them put together pale in comparison to what we see going on today. If you look around the world today, Koan I mean today, how many religions are as adept at killing, maming, torturing, sodomizing, and terrorizing the peoples around them? Muslums are all around the world spreading thier form of religion in the most brutal way possible.

    There were 203 Jihad attacks in the month of November alone. 1138 killed, 1358 critically injured.

    The main fruit of Islam is murder.

  7. #7
    anomaly
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    Re: Jester and koan

    You claim to know what the founding principles of the religion are yet offer only rhetoric. I understand you have personal experience of seeing terrible things but, by the same token, should we ask a young boy molested by a priest what he thinks of Catholicism?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_C...ses_by_country

  8. #8
    anomaly
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    Re: Jester and koan

    Additionally, Christianity has many passages which spark debate over interpretation, as you and Ted are slugging out in this very forum.

    One can say that Christianity is a religion of murder based on
    "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
    – Luke 19.27 *

  9. #9
    Jester2
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    Re: Jester and koan

    Quote Originally Posted by koan View Post
    You claim to know what the founding principles of the religion are yet offer only rhetoric. I understand you have personal experience of seeing terrible things but, by the same token, should we ask a young boy molested by a priest what he thinks of Catholicism?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_C...ses_by_country
    I imagine it’s pretty awful to go through that. And its wrong and those that commit such acts need to be punished.

    Below is a site that explains a different version of what you have eluded to is Muhammad’s life, its far easier to believe this version than yours, after all that I’ve seen and continue to read about the peaceful state of Islam.

    I don’t want their kind of peace. What I know historically about Muhammad tells me his words are false and destructive.

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/History.htm

    Origins
    To understand Islam, you must understand the harsh circumstances into which the religion was born. The Arabian Peninsula at the time of Muhammad (b.570 AD) was a barren and desolate region with a scorching sun and oppressive heat by day, and a chilling cold at night. There was little vegetative growth, and the nomadic inhabitants lived between jagged rocks and sifting sand dunes.
    While Europe and much of the Middle East was transitioning from the Roman to the Byzantine Empire, with roads, irrigation canals, aqueducts, and a culture that included philosophical discourse and theater, the Arabians lived short and brutal lives in warring tribes with very little to offer the rest of the world beyond their own harsh existence.
    This explains the inherent hostility in the Qur’an to music and art, which some extremists, such as the Taliban, take quite literally. The religion does not encourage the pursuit of knowledge outside of itself, and it has sometimes been referred to as “the religion which has produced nothing but religion.”
    The inhospitable climate protected the peninsula from conquest and cultural influence, although the Persians did manage to impose a written language along the coastal edges of the region, which is the origin of Arabic. No foreign army felt that sheep and goats were worth taking from the desert fighters and the area was remarkably isolated. The renaissance of knowledge that the rest of the world had been experiencing since the Greek revival was largely missed out on by the Arabs, whose entire energies were devoted to daily survival against the ruthless environment and other tribes.
    For these people, morality was dictated merely by necessity, and obligations did not extend beyond one’s tribe. This is a critical basis for the development of the Islamic attitude toward those outside the faith, including the moral principle that the ethics of any act are determined only by whether or not it benefits Muslims.
    There were pagan traditions in Arabia, particularly among those based in the trading centers, such as Mecca and Medina. Kaaba, the cube-like structure at Mecca that houses a black rock, was worshipped by certain tribes with a circling ritual that was later borrowed by Muhammad’s followers. Likewise, Allah was the name that had been given to the moon god, many centuries before Muhammad's time.
    Muhammad later created Islam based on these crude pagan practices as well as basic theological elements of Christianity and Judaism according to his own (often inaccurate) understanding. His erroneous interpretation of Christianity, for example, is often attributed to an early experience with fringe cults in the Palestinian region.
    Early Life at Mecca
    Muhammad was born around 570 AD in Mecca. He grew up poor and orphaned on the margins of society, which was controlled by tribal chiefs and trading merchants. He worked for his uncle as a camel herder. Although his uncle had some standing in the community, Muhammad himself did not rise above his lowly station until he was 25, when he met and married a wealthy widow who was 15 years older.
    Having now attained a comfortable lifestyle and the idle time that wealth affords, Muhammad would wander off occasionally for periods of meditation and contemplation. One day, at the age of 40, he told his wife that he had been visited by the angel Gabriel. Thus began a series of revelations which lasted until his death. The Qur’an is based on the oral traditions of these revelations. The Hadith is a collection of narrations of the life and deeds of Muhammad. The Sunnah is the said to be his way of life.
    With his wife’s influence and support, Muhammad began trying to convert those around him to his new religion - an amalgamation of Judeo-Christian theology and pagan tradition that grew more sophisticated over time. In the beginning, he did his best to compromise his teachings with the predominant beliefs of the community’s elders, such as combining all 300 of their idols under the name “Allah.” This wasn't enough to prevent the resentment of the influential leaders of Mecca, who mocked his humble background against pretentious claims of prophethood.


    Medina and the Origin of Jihad
    Stinging from the rejection of his own town and tribe, it was at Medina that Muhammad's message began to become more intolerant and ruthless - particularly as he gained power.
    To fund his quest for control, Muhammad directed his followers to raid Meccan caravans in the holy months, when the victims would least expect it. Revelations were conveniently provided to him, which allowed his people to murder innocent drivers and steal in his service. The people around him gradually developed a lust for things that could be taken in battle, including material comforts and captured women and children.
    Often the people captured in battle would be brought before the self-proclaimed prophet, where they would plead for their lives, arguing, for example, that they would never have treated the Muslims that way. The Hadith are quite clear in portraying Muhammad as largely unmoved by their pleas, and ordering their deaths anyway, often by horrible means. In one case, he orders a man slain, telling him that “hell-fire” will take care of the poor fellow’s orphaned daughter.
    The raids on caravans preceded the first major battle involving a Muslim army, the Battle of Badr. This was the spot where the Meccans had sent their own army to protect their caravans from Muslim raiders. Although, Muslims today like to claim that they only attack in self-defense, this was clearly not the case in Muhammad's time. In fact, he had to compel his reluctant warriors with promises of paradise and assurances that their religion was more important than the lives of others.

    The Qurayza Massacre

    By the time the Banu Qurayza met their fate, Muhammad was wealthy and powerful from his defeat of the other two tribes.

    The Jews of the Banu Qurayza tasted Muhammad's wrath after a portion half-heartedly sided with Meccan armies during a siege of Medina (the Battle of the Trench). More than likely, those who did were trying to preempt Muhammad's designs against them after seeing what he had done to the other Jews.

    Although they later surrendered peacefully to the Muslims, Muhammad determined to have every man of the tribe executed, along with every boy that had reached the initial stages of puberty (between the ages of 12 and 14). He had a ditch dug outside of the town and had the victims brought in several groups. Each person would be forced to kneel, and their head would be cut off and then dumped along with the body into the trench.

    Between 700 and 900 men and boys were slaughtered by the Muslims after their surrender.

    The surviving children of the men became slaves of the Muslims, and their widows became the sex slaves of their own killers. This included the Jewish girl, Reihana, who became one of Muhammad's personal concubines the very night that her husband was killed. The prophet of Islam apparently "enjoyed her pleasures" (ie. raped her) even as the execution of her people was taking place.

    Women were much like any other possession taken in battle, to be done with however their captors pleased. Muhammad ordered that a fifth be reserved for him, many of who became his sex slaves, in addition to his twelve wives. Some of these he doled out to others.

    At one point following a battle, Muhammad provided instructions on how women should be raped after capture, telling his men not to worry about coitus interruptus, since "Allah has written whom he is going to create."

    Following the battle against the Hunain, late in his life, Muhammad's men were reluctant to rape the captured women in front of their husbands (who were apparently still alive to witness the abomination), but Allah came to the rescue with a handy "revelation" that allowed this. (This is the origin of Sura 4:24 according to Abu Dawud 2150).

    You can read the whole thing there, I only pulled out excerpts, I’ve read this site a dozen times over and I have read many other reports until I am nauseated all have shown me the character of Islam.

    While I agree that there are some folks that are peaceful in Islam, by and large their history is not peaceful, nor is their prevalent present action peaceful either.

  10. #10
    Jester2
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    Re: Jester and koan

    Register to remove this ad.
    Quote Originally Posted by koan View Post
    Additionally, Christianity has many passages which spark debate over interpretation, as you and Ted are slugging out in this very forum.

    One can say that Christianity is a religion of murder based on
    "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
    – Luke 19.27 *
    You could say that.

    But very few Christains murder at the same level and incidence as Islam does.

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