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Thread: States: The Greatest Threat To Human Life

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    States: The Greatest Threat To Human Life

    Why do so many people object to, or at least, shy away from discussions about anarchy as an alternative to the immorality of "states".

    Patterns arise in every state: they achieve the subjugation of the masses under the control of the rich and powerful. War is routine. Tyranny runs rampant. Minorities are oppressed. Men are conscripted and enslaved. Justice is perverted, and people live under constant threat that their security will be undermined. And so, we continue on in our incredibly destructive course.

    Yet, the second a person suggests that we might dispose of the state, he is subjected to ridicule, derision, or even violence. So it seems that the true reactionary position is the one that is averse to considering what alternatives might be available.

    This situation would be funny if it were not so sad. Objectors ask “What are we to do about murderers? Let them run the streets?” Now, this is a curious question, because states are themselves murderers, only they accomplish their killings by the millions rather than individually. And we not only let them run our streets, but we let them patrol them. For it seems to me that men have been duped. The would be ruler says, “Men are very evil, and they will try to hurt you, so you need me to protect you.” But if men are so evil, then how can we trust men to rule over us? And how can we trust men to follow whatever rules are set up anyway?

    Most private individuals I know did not steal, nor rape, nor plunder, kill or defraud. Nor would they have done those things even if they had been legal. They needed no law to inform them of right and wrong; nor, I trust, did you. On the other hand, how many men did things that they otherwise would not have done, merely because the state said that it was okay? Would hundreds of thousands of young men, merely on their own initiative, have armed themselves to the teeth and journeyed to Iraq to torture, kill, and terrorize? No, to accomplish that great evil they needed a state to tell them that it was alright to do what they would otherwise find repugnant.

    Throughout the history of mankind one fact is quite evident: that by far the single most common aggressor against the rights of mankind is, and always will be, states. In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson expressed the concept that states exist for the purpose of securing our rights. Yet, what a misguided notion! To see how misguided this notion is, one merely needs to read the so-called Bill of Rights to the Constitution. This document attempts to secure for all Americans the rights to freedom of speech, freedom of worship, freedom of the press, freedom to peaceably assemble, freedom to bear arms, security against having the military quartered in our homes, security against unreasonable searches and seizures, and security against unfair judicial proceedings. But who is it that threatens these rights if it is not states? The argument is, therefore, circular: We need a state to secure our rights, but those rights are only threatened by the state.

    What anarchists object to is being forced to adhere to an organization to which we have not given consent, from which we may not withdraw if it violates our conscience, and which provides its so called “services” in a coercive rather than a voluntary manner. At the heart of the anarchist argument is a desire to uphold peace, morality, and freedom in a spirit of cooperation. Anarchists acknowledge a simple truth: that any relationship that is not consensual can only result in further violence; but that a relationship among a group of people that recognizes the value of each individual, and acknowledges the individual's ultimate ability to choose whether to continue that relationship, is based on the greatest bonds of fraternity. This, and not bomb-throwing, is the legacy of anarchism.

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    Senior Member mikeinie's Avatar
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    Re: States: The Greatest Threat To Human Life

    Anarchists are usually people with nothing to loose to begin with.

    While they are out demonstrating and trying to start revolutions, their moms and dads are at home working their buts off to pay for their college education.

    It is easier to fight the establishment and denounce any responsibility than it is to accept responsibility and help make society a better place.

    Any idiot can knock down a building, but it takes skill to build one.

    The problem with anarchist is that they offer no solution, what replaces the void they have left once they tear apart society?? History indicates the gap gets filled with some military dictatorship.

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    Re: States: The Greatest Threat To Human Life

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeinie View Post
    The problem with anarchist is that they offer no solution, what replaces the void they have left once they tear apart society?? History indicates the gap gets filled with some military dictatorship.
    Your preconceived notions have nothing to do with reality. If you'd have taken the time to read my previous post regarding The Science Of Morality (in another thread) and the stabilizing factor of Market Anarchism (in Why does economic development matter?) you might have gotten a clue. But you didn't and you don't.

    I liken the current situation with the immorality of the "state" with the immorality of slavery. When it was proposed that slavery in the US be abolished did anyone say "the abolition of slavery should be conditional upon the provision of jobs for every freed slave". Or that "the void created on plantations must be addressed before abolishing slavery". NO they did not! Slavery was recognized as a moral wrong and needed to be abolished. States routinely initiate force, murder millions, and steal from their citizens. How much immorality is too much? When do the good citizens of countries begin to examine alternatives to the state? I say now.

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    Senior Member Richard Bell's Avatar
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    Re: States: The Greatest Threat To Human Life

    "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."

    Winston Churchill


    "We went to the Phillie Pizza Company
    And ordered some hot tea
    The waitress said "Well no
    We only have it iced"
    So we jumped up on the table
    And shouted "Anarchy"

    Dead Milkmen, Punk Rock Girl


    There ya go... the whole debate pithily summed up by the greatest minds of the twentieth century.


    Why do so many people object to, or at least, shy away from discussions about anarchy as an alternative to the immorality of "states".
    Same reason we don't have debates about the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny. We're adults.

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    Senior Member mikeinie's Avatar
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    Re: States: The Greatest Threat To Human Life

    Quote Originally Posted by jdx View Post
    Your preconceived notions have nothing to do with reality. If you'd have taken the time to read my previous post regarding The Science Of Morality (in another thread) and the stabilizing factor of Market Anarchism (in Why does economic development matter?) you might have gotten a clue. But you didn't and you don't.

    .

    I did not know that there was a pre-requisite to replying to this post that required going through your other posts first prior to replying, and you made no reference within this post that it was require to read your other posts first.

    Good example of anarchy, all over the fk’n place.

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    Re: States: The Greatest Threat To Human Life

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeinie View Post
    I did not know that there was a pre-requisite to replying to this post that required going through your other posts first prior to replying, and you made no reference within this post that it was require to read your other posts first.

    Good example of anarchy, all over the fk’n place.
    My point was and still is anarchy is merely the logical application of the moral premise that the initiation of the use of force is wrong.

    Nowhere in this thread do I project the image you portrayed of an anarchist. And, in my other posts I do begin to offer solutions. You have no obligation to read anything unless you have an interest in learning the truth.

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    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: States: The Greatest Threat To Human Life

    Quote Originally Posted by jdx View Post
    My point was and still is anarchy is merely the logical application of the moral premise that the initiation of the use of force is wrong.

    Nowhere in this thread do I project the image you portrayed of an anarchist. And, in my other posts I do begin to offer solutions. You have no obligation to read anything unless you have an interest in learning the truth.
    And no-one has any obligation to read your posts at all if they're going to be insulted.

    Posts such as "Your preconceived notions have nothing to do with reality. ............. you might have gotten a clue. But you didn't and you don't." do nothing to advancing your cause or encourage people to read or take your posts seriously.

    Nothing to do with having an interest in learning the truth, just having an interest in common courtesy.

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    Re: States: The Greatest Threat To Human Life

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    And no-one has any obligation to read your posts at all if they're going to be insulted.

    Posts such as "Your preconceived notions have nothing to do with reality. ............. you might have gotten a clue. But you didn't and you don't." do nothing to advancing your cause or encourage people to read or take your posts seriously.

    Nothing to do with having an interest in learning the truth, just having an interest in common courtesy.
    If you need an excuse to remain unaware of reality, that's as good as any.

    No one in this forum has chosen to discuss the facts, or disagreed with any assertions I've made against the state. If everyone agrees that the state is an evil entity then there should be a willingness to discuss alternatives.

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    Exclamation Re: States: The Greatest Threat To Human Life

    Are HUMANS end of story.

    States: The Greatest Threat To Human Life?
    ALOHA!!
    MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
    "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
    WOO HOO!!, what a ride!!!"


  10. #10
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: States: The Greatest Threat To Human Life

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdx View Post
    If you need an excuse to remain unaware of reality, that's as good as any.

    No one in this forum has chosen to discuss the facts, or disagreed with any assertions I've made against the state. If everyone agrees that the state is an evil entity then there should be a willingness to discuss alternatives.



    No one is likely to discuss anything with you given your attitude.

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