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Thread: Christ According To The Muslims

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    jimbo
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    Re: Christ According To The Muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    Don't type with your mouth full.

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    Senior Member Bruv's Avatar
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    Re: Christ According To The Muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniyal View Post
    Does anyone have any though on this post .

    Is that a question ? (note the question mark on mine)

    I do have some thoughts..........................thought Id keep them to myself though

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    Question Re: Christ According To The Muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    Is that a question ? (note the question mark on mine)

    I do have some thoughts..........................thought Id keep them to myself though




    Here The Ques;

    Was Jesus Son Of Mary A Muslim And What Was His Follower Called ?
    Never Argue With An Idiot. They Drag You Down To Their Level Then Beat You With Experience.

    When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down


    To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .

    It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble

    When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...

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    Senior Member freethinkingthuthseeker's Avatar
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    Re: Christ According To The Muslims

    Jesus is only the Son of Mary according to the Quran which is how they repeatedly refer to Jesus.
    Mary was not his Mother and he never called her mother. He called her "woman" the first time and at the cross he said to his Disciple John of Mary " Behold your mother"

    Mary was merely the deliverer for the Son of God as a man and he was emphatically not a muslim as Islam only developed 6-700 years after his life as a human.

    Hope that helps

    K

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    Senior Member Saint_'s Avatar
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    Re: Christ According To The Muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by freethinkingthuthseeker View Post
    the Son of God as a man and he was emphatically not a muslim as Islam only developed 6-700 years after his life as a human.

    Hope that helps

    K
    Well, that certainly helped me. I kind of wondered about that. Now for the next pressing questions:

    1. Is it true that Mohammed was a highway robber that preyed upon the caravans to build his power before assaulting his old home city and establishing Islam?

    2. Was Jesus dark-skinned? ( I know, like that matters.) Just curious.

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    Senior Member freethinkingthuthseeker's Avatar
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    Re: Christ According To The Muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_ View Post
    Well, that certainly helped me. I kind of wondered about that. Now for the next pressing questions:

    1. Is it true that Mohammed was a highway robber that preyed upon the caravans to build his power before assaulting his old home city and establishing Islam?

    2. Was Jesus dark-skinned? ( I know, like that matters.) Just curious.
    Thanks and to answer your two questions
    1 yes and many more non loving and sinful acts so long after the second testment of the Bible which is progress from the first and both are spiritual.

    2. I have no idea about Jesus's appearance this is only referred to in Isaiah which merely states that it is clean which refers to body language and how one looks at others

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    Senior Member freethinkingthuthseeker's Avatar
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    Re: Christ According To The Muslims

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniyal View Post
    Here The Ques;

    Was Jesus Son Of Mary A Muslim And What Was His Follower Called ?
    Of coures he was not a Muslim that phoney religion was not created until 800 years after Jesus sacrifcie and ressurection and triumph over death and evil

    This is what is wrong with that disapointing book
    uhammad posed as an apostle of God. Yet his life is filled with lustfulness (12 marriages and sex with a child, slaves and concubines), rapes, warfare, conquests, and unmerciful butcheries. The infinitely good, just and all holy God simply cannot tolerate anything in the least unjust or sinful. What Muhammad produced in the Qur'an is simply a book of gibberish consisting of later evil verses abrogating (superseding) earlier peaceful verses. These verses in Arabic poetically "tickle" the ears of Arab listeners. Islam is a caustic blend of paganism and twisted Bible stories. Muhammad, its lone "prophet", who made no prophecies, conceived his religion to satiate his lust for power, sex, and money. He was a terrorist. And if you think these conclusions are shocking, wait until you see the evidence mostly from Islamic historians below. 70% of what is here is from Muslim and ex-Muslim historians - back to the 8th century.

    The Sirat Rasul Allah was written by Ibn Ishaq in 750 A.D. He died in 773 A.D. It was edited and abridged by Abd al-Malik ibn Hisham in 828 A.D. and translated by Alfred Guillaume under the title, The Life of Muhammad in 1955 by Oxford Press. Abd al-Malik ibn Hisham's "Life of Muhammad" relied on the earlier works. Ulmar al-Waqidi of Medina, who died in 825 A.D. produced a work, which portions of which have survived, called "The Expeditions of Muhammad". The History of al-Tabari was written by Abu Muhammad bin al-Tabari between 870 and 920 A.D. His monumental work was translated and published in 1987 through 1997 by the State University of New York Press. Make sure you study I, II, VI, VII, VIII, and IX. Al-Bukhari's Hadith, titled: Sahih Al-Bukhari and The True Traditions which was collected by Imam Bukhari in 850 A.D. Be sure to use the collector's original nomenclature because the only printed English translation (Publisher-Maktaba Dar-us-Salam, Translator-Muhammad Khan) was abridged and erroneously numbered. Finally, I recommend that you acquire at least three of the following Qur'an translations: Ahmed Ali, Pikthal, Noble by Muhsin Khan, Yusuf Ali, or Shakir. The oldest Qur'an fragments date to around 725 A.D. - a century after they were first recited.

    The main intent of this article is to warn Christians who may be "fooled" into Islam, because they did not have all the facts. It is a matter of grave concern. If you reject Jesus and the salvation He made possible -- and follow Islam, your entire salvation (where you will spend eternity) is at stake. Islam can deceive you. It can fool the very elect. It rejects the salvation Jesus has made possible. Islam spreads the lie that Jesus never even died on a cross. That alone makes it demonic. This document also exists as a reference document to get out the truth which Muslims are never allowed to see. Of all the holy books in the world, Satan has taken pains to ensure that Muhammad and his Qur'an defiantly stand in diametrical opposition to Jesus, the Son of God, the true Prince of Peace - and his New Testament.

    The immortal souls of billions of individuals are involved here. To good Muslims I say; "I have sympathy with your having to grow up in a closed society -- where not embracing Islam would have gotten you shunned or even killed". According to many interpretations of the Qur'an (aka: Koran), conversion to a faith other than Islam is punishable by death. Like Satan's slavery, Islam maintains a choke hold on its followers. This sorrowful situation most Muslims are born into should arouse compassion and not scorn, from the followers of the Christ.

    Jesus never said a true prophet would appear in the last days. Rather, He said false prophets would arise who would deceive, if possible, the very elect.

    One Must be a Christian to be Saved! References for this is found in John 14:6; Acts 4:12, and 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16. One cannot be a Christian without verbally confessing the deity of Jesus the Christ. One cannot even pray to God, let alone have sins remitted by Him, without approaching Him through Jesus (John 14:6 and 13, 15:16; 16:23-24; Romans 5:2, and Ephesians 2:18). I know Muslims and Mormons, Christian Scientists and Seventh Day Adventists will not want to hear this, but the Bible declares that Jesus was the FINAL revelation of God to man. There have been no others. (The Quran Unveiled).

    You can always know a false god.
    False gods always demand the blood of innocents.
    Whenever the innocent and just are being slain, there you will find Moloch the god Ba'al; always masquerading.

    The god of Muslims is revealed as a tyrant who demands Muslims and all others submit to him. Whereas in the New Testament, Jesus revealed to Christians a God who is a loving Father, who wants us to come to Him via free will. In the Old Testament (Exodus 34:6) the real God revealed Himself as "merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth". He is the Creator of the Universe, the God of Love, and Lord of Life. The God of Israel is this true God. He insists "Thou shall not kill the innocent and just".

    When a Muslim declares that Islam is a religion of peace, he/she is either ignorant of the Koran (Qur'an), or is deceitfully thinking of this "peace", as it extends only to those within the Muslim Community. The deceit is that they will not tell you exactly what they mean. According to the Qur'an: "Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah. Those who follow him are merciful to one another, but ruthless to unbelievers" Surah 48:29. "Kill the Mushrikun (unbelievers) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush..." Surah 9:5. Also see Surah 9:29: PICKTHAL: "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture (Christians & Jews) as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.". Please note that there is not a single verse in the entire Christian Bible that contains this "open-ended", universal command to kill/or be ruthless to unbelievers.

    Surah 47:4 says:

    Fa'idhā Laqītumu Al-Ladhīna Kafarū Fađarba Ar-Riqābi ĤattaĆ” 'Idhā 'Athkhantumūhum Fashuddū Al-Wathāqa Fa'immā Mannāan Ba`du Wa 'Immā Fidā'an ĤattaĆ” Tađa`a Al-Ĥarbu 'Awzārahā Dhālika Wa Law Yashā'u Allāhu Lāntaşara Minhum Wa Lakin Liyabluwa Ba`đakum Biba`đin Wa Al-Ladhīna Qutilū Fī Sabīli Allāhi Falan Yuđilla 'A`mālahum

    which means

    Therefore, WHEN YOU MEET THE UNBELIEVERS, SMITE AT THEIR NECKS; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

    Many Quran translators have tried to soften the meaning in their translation by adding the words “in war” in brackets after the word “Unbelievers” but they are NOT there in the original Arabic text.

    Allah - the Pagan god:

    Islam, teaches that Jews and Christians both have earned the wrath of Allah by failing to follow Islam, and that they have also lost the way by following the teachings of the Torah for the Jews, or the Bible for Christians. Additionally, This god Allah (with a little g) lies about Jesus. Islam says that Jesus not only is not the Son of God, but that He did not even die on a cross in Jerusalem... Allah is therefore proven to be a false pagan god... Jews also do not believe this about Jesus (Yeshua). Who will believe it? The greatest of kings. Born in the humblest of places.... God, born in the flesh! The Apostle Paul tells us that Jews have been supernaturally blinded to this by God. Yet Christians and Jews worship the same God (Yahweh) and share the same Bible. Learn more. See movies "The Nativity Story" and "Jesus", here.

    About 578 years before Islam came along, Christians were warned against Islam by both Jesus and the Apostle Paul. Jesus warned us about the many false prophets who would follow Him (Matthew 16:11-12) . Paul warned us when he wrote:

    “But even if we (or an angel from heaven) should preach a Gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be condemned to hell!” (Galatians 1:8).

    Since Islam’s message differs fundamentally from the Gospel, it is clear what Paul taught regarding the fate of Muhammad and those who propagate Islam. Islam bypasses the sacrificial mediating work Jesus did for believers on the cross, thus negating the forgiveness of sins. This condemns non-believers to die in their sins. Jesus said; "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." John 8:24

    Jesus also predicted the current dilemma of Muslim intolerance and fanaticism. He warned that the day was likewise coming when religious zealots will kill Christians and think they are offering a service to God (John 16:2-4).

    Dear Christians and Muslims. Jesus is committed to winning the spiritual Holy War. He wants nobody to suffer an eternity without God, confined to a godless place. Know this, that God Himself is calling out those Muslims with good hearts! Jesus (Isa) Himself is appearing to many. A few years ago, Al-Jazeera reported that roughly six million Muslims are leaving Islam and becoming followers of Jesus every year in Africa. In 2005, roughly 250,000 Muslims converted to Christianity in Iran. Between 2003-2005, roughly 1 million Muslims converted to Christianity in Arab countries. Muslims are coming to Christ in North America, too, although not to the same extent as in Muslim countries. Tens of millions are embracing Jesus every few years in India and in China. Chinese missionaries are now gearing up to bring the Gospel of Jesus to dark Muslim places.
    The Muslim Qur'an (Koran) and Muslim Hadith are unique among all the sacred writings in the entire world -- because they alone counsel its followers to make war on unbelievers. Any thoughtful reader will be forced to admit that evil literally "drips" from their pages. One in every 55 verses in the Muslim Qur'an consists of this fake god Allah insisting that Muslims make war on unbelievers.

    As you will see below, the Qur'an is a made up book of gibberish, of evil verses abrogating (superseding) peaceful verses.

    The Qur'an cannot be trusted because it contains numerous "divinely inspired" contradictions. If God has a history of abrogating (changing) his own revelations as is done in the Qur'an, then how can we be certain he will not abrogate it again in the future? If Allah can abrogate his eternal speech, how can you trust him with your eternal soul?

    Comparing the Bible with the Qur'an "has likewise brought the firm realization that the contrast is stark and astounding. The superiority of the Bible is so transparently evident that one is flabbergasted and dumbfounded that so many human beings have embraced Islam in the last 1,400 years". .. "The Quran lacks this heavenly manifestation of inspiration". The Quran Unveiled, page 254


    Jesus Christ:

    To the Muslim, Jesus Christ is merely one of the many prophets of Allah (Sura: 4:171; 5:74). According to Islam, the prophet Muhammad supersedes Jesus Christ. Islam says Jesus Christ is not the Son of God or part of any Trinity (Surah 5:17; 5:116; 19:35). We are told by Islam that Jesus was the Messiah (Surah 3:45; 4:157; 171), but nothing but a slave on whom God showed favor (Surah 43:59); yet elsewhere in the Qur'an we are told the Messiah is not a slave (Surah 4:172). The Qur'an tells us that Jesus Christ did not atone for anyone's sins, although he was himself sinless (Surah 3:46) and is one of those who are near to God (Surah 3:45). Positively, the Qur'an says that Jesus Christ performed miracles (Surah 3:49; 5:110) and was the Messiah. The Qur'an says Jesus did not die on a cross. Various Muslim traditions say that Jesus either miraculously substituted Judas Iscariot for himself on the cross, or that God miraculously delivered Him from the hands of the Romans and Jews before He could be crucified. Most Muslims believe that Jesus Christ was taken bodily into heaven without having died (Surah 4:157). However, Surah 19:33 says Jesus died and would be resurrected. Muhammad on the other hand died in his wife Aisha's home, not long after he was poisoned by a slave girl. Muhammad's body was lowered into a hole in Medina, and his dead body was covered by dirt and brickwork.

    It is interesting to compare Jesus and Muhammad according to the Qur'an. Jesus did miracles (Surah 3:49; 5:110), but Muhammad did not (Surah 13:8: "thou art a warner [of coming divine judgment] only"; also 6:37; 6:109; 17:59 and 17:90-93).

    Jesus was sinless (Surah 3:46), but Muhammad sinned and needed forgiveness (Surah 40:55: "Ask forgiveness of thy sin"; 42:5: "Ask forgiveness for those on the Earth"; 47:19: "Ask forgiveness for thy sin" ; 48:2: "that Allah may forgive thee of thy sin").

    Jesus was called "the Messiah" by Allah in the Qur'an. And Jesus was even born of a virgin (Surah 3:45-57)! Yet Muhammad who had 12 wives, 2 concubines, and participated in many attacks on innocent caravans and villages, and insisted on 20% of all the booty from these raids -- is supposed to be the greatest of the prophets.

    Both Muslim holy books (Qur'an/Koran and Hadith) contain commands for Muslims to subjugate the world, militarily. Muhammad commanded Muslims to spread Islam through Offensive Jihad; or conquest of non-Muslim lands. Muslims are also commanded to take back any land that was formerly Muslim, such as Israel.

    Radical Muslims believe that they are Mujahideen, or "holy warriors of Allah". Their goal, like Islam's goal is to establish the entire world as a pure Islamic state (a Khalifah), which conforms to Islamic laws.

    An example of what Muslim children are taught in Muslim schools is this statement, found in a Jordanian/Palestinian school book in 1998:

    "This religion (Islam) will destroy all other religions through the Islamic Jihad fighters"


    Read the true history of Islam below and then look into your own heart to see if you are missing something; or if you have been lied to regarding Islam itself.

    The below information on the history of Muhammad and the history of Islam comes primarily from Muslim historians and the Qur'an (Koran) itself... Some of these sources used are:
    Qur'an / Koran itself Abu Dawud (sunnah)(A.D. 832?)
    Quote from Imam Muhammad Baqir (676-743 AD) about Imam Mahdi Tirmidhi (A.D. 892)
    Ibn Ishaq (A.D. 768) Tabari (A.D. 929)
    Ulmar al-Waqidi of Medina (A.D. 822) Zamakhshari (A.D.1144)
    Abd al-Malik ibn Hisham (A.D. 828)

    Baidawi (A.D. 1292)
    Ibn Sa'd (A.D. 845) Ibn Kathir (A.D. 1301-1372)
    Ahmad ibn Hanbal (A.D. 855) Ibn Khaldun (A.D. 1332-1406)
    Amr ibn Sharhabil (Caliph 717-20 AD) Imam al-Mawawy
    al-Bukhari (A.D. 810-870) Sahih al-Bukbari
    Ibn Hazam (A.D. 994-1064)
    Ali Dashti
    Ibn Hajar - "Isabah", or "Dictionary of Persons who knew Muhammad"
    Muhammad Ibn al-Rawandi, in "The Quest for the Historical Muhammad"
    Also, Alfred Guillaume best known/respected Western Scholar on Islam
    Also, Shmuel Berkovits' book "How Dreadful Is this Place!"
    Also, "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades"
    Also, Ali Dashti: "Twenty Three Years: A Study of the Prophetic Career of Mohammad"
    Also, "Islam and Terrorism" and "Jesus and Muhammad", by the former professor of Islamic history at Al-Azhar University, Cairo, Egypt (Born a Muslim in Egypt/name changed to: Mark A. Gabriel, PHD)
    "Inside Islam, A Guide for Catholics", Pages 61, 62, 69, Co-wrote by David Ali, Islam Apostate
    Quote from Imam Muhammad Baqir (676-743 AD) about Imam Mahdi
    Ibn Hisham, The Life of Muhammad, 3rd ed., pt. 6, vol. 3 (Beirut, Lebanon: Dar-al-Jil, 1998), p. 8
    The Truth about Muhammad, Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion, by Robert Spencer
    The Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin & Ravi Zacharias, pages 445-447
    "Islam Reviewed" by M. Ali, 2nd edition 1999
    The Quran Unveiled, by Dave Miller, P.H.D.
    The Islamic AntiChrist by Joel Richardson

    The Qur'an itself calls the Gospel of Jesus "Guidance and Light"

    The biggest threat to Islam is without a doubt the teachings of the true "Prophet of Peace" Jesus Christ. Islamic leaders go to extraordinary means to hide the Gospel of Jesus from Muslims.

    The fact that Muslims do not read and study the New Testament / the Gospel of Jesus is yet another contradiction in Islam. Question the "dark side" - the Islamic Fear of Christianity. Just as Satan wails at a crucifix at an exorcism - the Islamic cult member normally wails at the sight of the Christian Bible. A false prophet can always be recognized, because he attacks the true prophet. A false Bible can be recognized, because it contradicts the true Bible.

    Islam goes one step further. First Islam tries to gain acceptance by attesting to the truth and validity of both the Christian and Jewish holy books. But, it then clearly steps out of the light, exposing itself to its diabolical agenda, by contradicting and falsifying the facts and teachings in both these books. Also, question the "dark side" of a Religion such as Islam that requires you to only recite salah and prayers like the Namaz, in a language (Arabic) you do not understand. All Muslims, Arab and non-Arab alike, are obliged to pray in Arabic. Even if you do not understand a single word. Muslims are also required to read the Qur'an in Arabic, in order to attain any graces at all from Allah. It is not necessary that the person can understand even a word of what he is reading. This is what the warning means that Jesus left us with, when he said; "insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Most Muslims do repetitive prayers in a language (Arabic) which they do not understand. The mandatory recital - The Shahadah: Ash hadu ala ilah ha ilahlah wa ash hadu anna Muhammadah Rasullulah. Translated, it says; "I testify that there is no god but allah and I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah."

    You cannot recite only “ I testify that there is no god but Allah “ and not include “Muhammad is the prophet of Allah “ . That is forbidden or ‘haram’. You must recite “ Muhammad is the prophet of Allah “.
    Ibn Tymiyyah a very well respected ancient Islamic thinker says; "The Arabic language itself is part of Islam, and knowing Arabic is an obligatory duty.

    See a graphic example of the Christian idea of Jesus as our mediator and one with the Father (same light and substance) in this true Near Death Experience here

    Islam claims that Allah is the same God who was revealed in the Bible. . . . then if the Bible and the Qur'an have differing views of God, then Islam's claim is false. Don't forget that Muhammad claimed in Suras 2:87, 29:46, 32:23, 5:44, 6:154, 6:155 that Allah confirmed the Torah (Taurat) and Christian Gospel (Injeel) (Surah 2:87, 5:46, 5:68, 29:46 and 43:63). So, if the Torah and Gospel are correct, all the errors in the Qur'an shown below make the Qur'an false.

    Islam and Christianity are forever diametrically opposed:
    A tenet of Islam is that both Mohammed and Jesus of Nazareth were both Muslims. Islam says both were prophets sent by Allah. If this were true, then it is mandatory that these two great prophets must coincide exactly in all points and never contradict each other. Did not the same Allah send both of them? Then, aren't even the smallest of contradictions between the two, very big red flags? And there are a great many, which you will see below. Christianity and Islam are necessarily forever diametrically opposed to one another, just as evil and good are. Oral confession of the deity of Jesus Christ is prerequisite to becoming a Christian (Romans 10:9-10). To a Muslim, this is blasphemy. To a Christian it is blasphemy to not attribute divinity to Jesus the Christ. The New Testament could not be clearer on this subject. The heart, core and soul of Christianity is allegiance to Jesus Christ as God, Lord, and Savior! Were Jesus Christ who the Muslim Qur'an who it makes him out to be, then Christianity would be blasphemous and baseless.

    That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:9-10)


    Surah 5:68 - Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law (Torah), the Gospel (Injeel), and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord."

    Surah 29:46 Muslims are told by Allah, not to question the authority of the scriptures of the Christians, saying, "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one;

    Islam says that Jesus did not die. So, again --Islam has proven to be false; because Muhammad claimed the Gospel is true, and all 4 Gospels (Injil) testify that Jesus died and rose from the dead. God does have a begotten Son (not made, but one with the Father), which Islam denies. The Jewish Torah / Taurat (Tawrat) clearly indicated this over 1000 years before Muhammad and Islam. In addition their are collateral 1st century sources that testify that Jesus was put to death. In the "Annals" written by Roman historian Tacitus, in Book XV, Chapter 44 we read "Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius." Roman historian Josephus also wrote about the death and Resurrection of Jesus. Even Satan says that Jesus died on the cross. Also, the Roman Historian Seutonius wrote in his work "Life of the Emperor Claudius" the following about Christians: "and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws." The Roman historian Pliny wrote about Jesus' death in Book X of his Epistles. Julius Africanus, quoting Thallus another Roman historian, who wrote in about 52 A.D. about the miraculas happenings the day the Son of God was killed. He wrote: "On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down". Like Muhammad, Satan also cringes in fear at the sight of the cross. Read this true Exorcism here
    Proverbs 30:4 (700 B.C.): "Who hath ascended up into heaven or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in His fists? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the Earth? What is His name, and what is His son's name, if thou canst tell?"

    (Psalm 2:11-12) Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

    Even after Allah confirmed the Torah and Gospel, Islamic Mullahs and Imams have tried to sell the lie that the Christian Gospels and Jewish Torah have been corrupted.

    This a complete lie! This lie is perpetuated by Islam, because of all the historic, scientific, and simple mathematical errors in the Koran/Qur'an - as you'll see below... The Qur'an just doesn't add up.

    "They" could not have changed the Christian Gospels after Muhammad, since there are 5,735 (Welte, 2003) manuscripts of the whole or part of the Greek text of the New Testament (Injil) pre-dating Muhammad still in existence. Worldwide, there are 24,800 copies of these original manuscripts. These include the Codex Vaticanus (325-350 AD) located in the Vatican library and the Codex Siniaticus (350 AD) located in the British Museum. There are also 80,000 quotations in the works of early Christian writers which are so extensive that the New Testament could virtually be reconstructed from them without the actual New Testament documents. Then there is the obvious fact that the Christian Gospels were so widely distributed both before and after Muhammad, that any attempt to change (add/subtract) something in the Christian Gospels would have resulted in immediate discovery and condemnation. Additionally, the New Testament was handed down from apostolic times and its genuineness was guarded by Christian churches, and it was zealously watched by enemies of Christianity. A very wide protest would have resulted from both sides were it tampered with. Likewise, the Septuagint edition of the Old Testament was always in the hands of both Christians and Jews, both rivals in religion. Any attempts to change this by either side would have been vigorously attacked.

    There are four more "safeguards" for the integrity of the Bible. (1) Jesus Himself read from Isaiah scroll in a Synagogue in Nazareth and declared it as Scripture (inspired from God), Luke 4:16-21; (2) The Dead Sea scrolls, found in 1947, verified the Jewish Torah back to 100 AD to 200 BC, when they were copied. Prior to this discovery, the oldest Torah dated to the 9th century AD. The Dead Sea scroll of Isaiah verified almost exactly the Isaiah scroll copied in the 9th century; (3) Early Church Fathers like Ignatius, Clement of Rome, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Irenaeus, who wrote from between 90-160 AD all cited in their writings Christian Gospel accounts (Guthrie, 1990, page 24); (4) We know that the writings of Moses were preserved as far back as 621 BC. 2 Kings 22 speaks of this at the time of the Israeli King Josiah. Ezra 7:14, Nehemiah 8:1-18, and Jeremiah 36 also speaks of the Jews maintaining Scripture.

    Some versions of the Bible from 1881 differ in a few words here and there. However, the essential theological points remain the same and are complete. Bibles we recommend, that have not changed are:
    Protestants original Authorized King James (1611)
    Catholics Catholic Douay Reims - older versions

    The Christian Bible predates Muhammad and Islam by more than 575 years. The Jewish Torah predates Muhammad and Islam by 1,000 - 3,000 years. Muhammad said for Muslims to read the Bible for "Guidance and Light." For Islam to say they are corrupted, then is to call Muhammad a liar for recommending it.

    The same Bible Muhammad would have seen (if he ever did) is in both (1) The Vatican (Codex Vaticanus) and (2) British Museum (Codex Sinaticus). It is all there, including Jesus dying on the cross as atonement for our sins. And, His resurrection, and ascension into heaven - in front of many witnesses. The New Testament is preserved in almost perfect condition in these two Greek texts which both predate Muhammad and Islam by over 200 years.

    Everything in the Christian/Jewish Bible is being authenticated by archeology. Consider the Babylonian cylinder inscription of Nabonidus (thought to be the last king of Babylon) which commemorates the reconstruction of a ziggurat at Ur by Nabonidus and records a prayer to Belshazzar (Daniel 5) his son 'the firstborn son, the offspring of my heart'. Not only does this prove that Belshazzar was indeed a member of the Babylonian royal family, which had long been disputed, but it also explains why Daniel is told he could be the third ruler (with Nabonidus and Belshazzar more or less acting as co-regents). Also, consider the 'chariot wheels' divers found in the Red Sea, proving the Hebrew Exodus from Egypy was real; and that the Egyptian army chasing the Jews was drowned by God (Yahweh), just as was recorded in the Jewish Bible.

    The Jewish and Christian Bibles were written by "inspired men of God" who immediately committed God's Word to writing. Islam doesn't even have either an original or inspired Qur'an. The Muslim Qur'an was made up supposedly from "memory" from those who supposedly committed the words of Muhammad to memory, and from a few scraps found under a bed. This was originally begun about 15-20 years after Muhammad died at his wife Ayish's home in Medina, and he was lowered into a hole in the ground, where he remains. The compilation was not finished until at least 150 years after Muhammad's death. This "hearsay" argument seriously brings the credibility of the Qur'an into question. But, that's only the beginning. All the errors, including simple mathematical and historical errors you will see in the Qur'an below renders it impossible to be a divine revelation.

    Al Bukhari, a Muslim scholar of the 9th-10th century, and the most authoritative of the Muslim tradition compilers, writes that whenever Muhammad fell into one of his unpredictable trances his revelations were written on whatever was handy at the time. The leg or thigh bones of dead animals were used, as well as palm leaves, parchments, papers, skins, mats, stones, and bark. And when there was nothing at hand the attempt was made by his disciples to memorize it as closely as possible.

    Zaid b. Thabit said: “The Prophet died and the Qur’an had not been assembled into a single place.” (p. 118, Ahmad b. `Ali b. Muhammad al `Asqalani, ibn Hajar, "Fath al Bari", 13 vols, Cairo, 1939/1348, volume 9, page 9)

    Zuhri reports, 'We have heard that many Qur'an passages were revealed but that those who had memorized them fell in the Yemama fighting. Those passages had not been written down, and following the deaths of those who knew them, were no longer known; nor had Abu Bakr, nor `Umar nor `Uthman as yet collected the texts of the Qur'an.

    “During the battle of Yamama, 450 reciters of the Quran were killed.” (The True Guidance, An Introduction To Quranic Studies, part 4 [Light of Life - P.O. BOX 13, A-9503 Villach, Austria], p. 47- citing Ibn Kathir’s Al-Bidaya wa al-Nibaya, chapter on Battle of Yamama).
    Muhammad's child wife said this after Muhammad died:

    "The verse of the stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept under my bed. When the messenger of Allah expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper."

    References: Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal. vol. 6. page 269; Sunan Ibn Majah, page 626; Ibn Qutbah, Tawil Mukhtalafi 'l-Hadith (Cairo: Maktaba al-Kulliyat al-Azhariyya. 1966) page 310; As-Suyuti, ad-Durru 'l-Manthur, vol. 2. page 13


    As to the Taurat (Torah), Jewish scribes painstakingly copied it via a system of checking, double checking and adding each letter on each line. Any attempt to change something in the Torah would have resulted in immediate discovery and condemnation. And copies of the Torah from around the world agree exactly. Thousands of the Hebrew Old Testament manuscript copies are still available for textual criticism, ranging in age from the second century B.C. (Before Christ) to the eleventh century A.D. (After Christ).

    The Qur'an is not an authentic book or revelation.

    There are no Arabic chronicles of Islam from the first century of Islam. Many of the earliest documents known about Islam refer to the followers of Muhammad as "hagarenes," and the "tribe of Ishmael," in other words as descendants of Hagar, the servant girl that the Jewish patriarch Abraham used to father his son Ishmael.

    This same quality of transmission we find regarding the Jewish and Christian bible cannot be said of the Islamic Qur'an. The Islamic Qur'an was mostly written down from 3rd and 4th hand accounts; and from a few thoughts written on scrap papers, palm leaves and stones --and compiled over 150 years after Muhammad died in 632 A.D. In the Mishtatu ‘lMasabih, chapter 3, we are informed that by the command of the first Caliph, Abu Bakr, the text of the Qur’an was “collected” by Zaid ibn Thabit “from palm leaves and stones and from the breasts of those who had learned by heart” the various revelations." Abu Bakr’s copy came into the possession of Hafsah, one of Muhammad’s widows. Qustalani states that after Hafsah’s death her copy was torn to pieces by Mirwan, who was governor of Medina.

    The oldest Qur'an dates from around 790 A.D. (after Jesus), and it is in the British Library. That's 158 years after Muhammad’s death. See corrupted Qur'an here .

    Muslims often claim that the manuscript of the Qur'an housed in the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, Turkey is one of the oldest sources. Muslims say it dates from around 650 A.D. There is an insurmountable problem with this. This document is written in Kufic (also known as al-Khatt al-Kufi) script. Coins in the British Museum show that the first coins using the Kufic script date from the mid to end of the 8th century (750-800 A.D.). The only script used during and after Muhammad's days was the Jazm script. These earliest copies of the Qur'an are written without vowels and diacritical dots that modern Arabic uses to make it clear what letter is intended. In the eighth and ninth centuries, more than a century after the death of Muhammad, Islamic commentators added diacritical marks to clear up the ambiguities of the text.

    Sorry suicide bombers. There will be no sexual favors (virgins) for you --where you are going,
    Although it does show how desperate you are and that you cant get a woman on earth!

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