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Thread: Down With The Dalai Lama

  1. #11
    Senior Member AnneBoleyn's Avatar
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    Re: Down With The Dalai Lama

    Ignorance is not bliss, it is suffering and brings negative consequences.
    How true. The negative consequences are evidenced in every part of society, in every cruelty we display toward each other.

  2. #12
    anomaly
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    Re: Down With The Dalai Lama

    Quote Originally Posted by pemalah View Post
    I am new to FG and have just read these posts.

    Ignorance is not bliss, it is suffering and brings negative consequences. None of you seem to have met the Dalai Lama, but all of you are willing to take a swipe at an incredible Being. Yes, I have met H.H. Dalai Lama several times and I have stayed in his (deceased) mother's house for some months. He is remarkable and has brought the Dharma to the west by fleeing Tibet and now stands as the representative that China likes to attack as he does all he can to help the Tibetan people still in brutal rule in Tibet.

    How small minded it is to comment about a car and Richard Gere?! The Dalai Lama is way beyond any ordinary person, of that I have no doubt, but then again, so was Jesus and look what was done to him, in ignorance!
    oh, I admit some disrespect was shown in the wording here but I have yet to get an answer to what I thought was a really good question.

    Before writing this, I emailed whoever answers the mail on the Dalai Lama's website and humbly asked for information explaining how the idea of non-attachment coincides with the insistence on returning to Tibet. I got an answer that just basically said that China was committing many injustices. No answer. I'm pretty sure the person responding could understand what non-attachment meant and, I assure you, I wrote the query believing there was a good answer I just hadn't figured out.

    I really feel that his encouragement towards the Tibetan people attaching themselves to a piece of land has increased their suffering. I'm convinced of it.

    Of course I'm not enlightened so my frustration is one of ignorance.

    I'd have been less frustrated if any actually tried to answer the question.

  3. #13
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    Re: Down With The Dalai Lama

    Non-attachment is not the same thing as 'lack of attachment', but the meaning is subtle.

    However, just because the Dalai Lama and many hundreds of other nuns, monks and Lamas no longer suffer from attachment, does not mean they all do or that the Tibetan people do. To be invaded by the Chinese and driven from their homeland because they revered the Dalai Lama as their Spiritual Leader, nothing more, is totally unjust.

    Why should the world expect Tibetans to be "above" all suffering and not need their own homeland which was wrongly and brutally taken from them? It's a huge ask and one that is really wrong. This is not "Buddhism"! Buddhism never speaks of martyrdom and that is the beauty of it.

    The Dalai Lama has never encouraged Tibetans to want to go back - they want to! HH Dalai Lama has asked repeatedly since 1959 that they all have patience and no anger. This has helped immensely with their suffering in exile and also the word has filtered back to the Tibetans living still under the oppression and genocide of the Chinese regime and has given them hope.

    Perhaps you did not receive a full answer for the simple reason that China has infiltrated just about everything Tibetan and constantly makes threats!

    Peace and Happiness.

  4. #14
    anomaly
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    Re: Down With The Dalai Lama

    I understand losing your home. I've walked away from all my possessions three times and not because I found something better but because of injuries either physical or emotional. Walking away was the best thing I could have done for my peace of mind. If I feel an ache when I think of what was lost I remind myself that possessions and property are just illusions and symbols.

    Them wanting to go back is a source of pain. Telling them to be patient is telling them they'll get it again and encouraging their attachment.

    Asceticism inspired self immolation at least once. Practitioners commonly walk away from their families to find enlightenment... but they can't walk away from Tibet?

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    Re: Down With The Dalai Lama

    Quote Originally Posted by koan View Post
    I understand losing your home. I've walked away from all my possessions three times and not because I found something better but because of injuries either physical or emotional. Walking away was the best thing I could have done for my peace of mind. If I feel an ache when I think of what was lost I remind myself that possessions and property are just illusions and symbols.

    Them wanting to go back is a source of pain. Telling them to be patient is telling them they'll get it again and encouraging their attachment.

    Asceticism inspired self immolation at least once. Practitioners commonly walk away from their families to find enlightenment... but they can't walk away from Tibet?
    Choosing to walk away is very different than being raped, shot and slaughtered wholesale and having to flee to save yourself, often leaving behind many loved ones whose fate you will never know. I too have lost everything three times in my life and not by choice. There are many Tibetans who are quite contented to be living in other parts of the world and they have spread the Dharma teachings with love and tenderness all over the west, even though they carry (literally) the scars of what the Chinese did to them.

    I cannot say and either can you or anyone else that telling the Tibetans to be patient is increasing their attachment! This is presuming their mind/heart and no one but themselves can know this.

    I repeat, choosing, is very different from having to.

  6. #16
    anomaly
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    Re: Down With The Dalai Lama

    I chose to walk away the first time because of a rape.

    I am very fond of Tibetan Buddhism but I'm not fond of the Dalai Lama in the same way I'm fond of many religions but not their institutions.

    From an interview with Geshe Kelsang Gyatso
    Lopez: Do you believe that the Dalai Lama is an incarnation of Avalokiteshvara?

    GKG:If he is an incarnation of Avalokiteshvara why he is causing so many people suffering? Why is he causing the spiritual life of so many people to be destroyed? Now there is big confusion. Since His Holiness the Dalai Lama removed Shugden statues from Gelugpa monasteries and temples and claimed that Shugden is a worldly, harmful spirit, people throughout the Buddhist world have begun to have doubts about the general dharma of the Gelugpa tradition, and in particular the dharma of Je Pabongka and Trijang Rinpoche. Now you can see the belief pervading everywhere that these lamas and their tradition are invalid and impure. How can His Holiness the Dalai Lama do this, unless he thinks that the dharma taught by Trijang Rinpoche is not the real dharma? What he is doing now is putting great effort to destroy the Dharma taught by his own spiritual guide. This is a very horrible example, because every Buddhist practitioner believes that relying on the spiritual guide is the root of the path and the very essence of the practice. He is showing that the lama or spiritual guide doesn’t matter. How can Avalokiteshvara do this?
    I can see why you were upset about Richard Gere and Mercedes Benz comments but... he did do a commercial for Apple Computers. There are a lot of valid questions about his conduct.

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    Re: Down With The Dalai Lama

    Quote Originally Posted by koan View Post
    I chose to walk away the first time because of a rape.

    I am very fond of Tibetan Buddhism but I'm not fond of the Dalai Lama in the same way I'm fond of many religions but not their institutions.

    From an interview with Geshe Kelsang Gyatso


    I can see why you were upset about Richard Gere and Mercedes Benz comments but... he did do a commercial for Apple Computers. There are a lot of valid questions about his conduct.

    Firstly, let me say that I am sorry that you had to walk away from......

    Secondly, I will say that Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is not a qualified Geshe and has caused great trouble since the mid 70s for many wonderful Lamas. Shugden has been 'grabbed' by the Chinese and used to commit murder at the Dalai Lama's Monastery and after much deliberation and discussion with his 'cabinet', the Dalai Lama was advised to put a stop to the practice of Shugden. Many Lamas still practice this though, but without the Chinese knowing - it's a long, political story, but never believe Geshe Kelsang Gyatso!

    The Dalai Lama also made a CD with some Aboriginal people in Australia and it brought them some well needed money and fame - no kick back for the DL! So what if he does a commercial? I think that shows his sense of humour! BTW, I was not upset.

    The DL is not my personal heart Guru and he certainly tries to remain non-political, but he couldn't, so he has stepped down as 'head of the Tibetan Government in Exile' as he never wanted to be that in the first place. I don't practice Tibetan Buddhism from a political point of view as I don't see it that way at all.


  8. #18
    anomaly
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    Re: Down With The Dalai Lama

    I'm glad you enjoy a sense of humour as the best summary of my issue with the Dalai Lama is from Penn & Teller and they are kind of crude:

  9. #19
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    Re: Down With The Dalai Lama

    Quote Originally Posted by koan View Post
    I'm glad you enjoy a sense of humour as the best summary of my issue with the Dalai Lama is from Penn & Teller and they are kind of crude:
    I have seen that one and it is way more than the Lama, it goes in good on Ghandi and Mother T

  10. #20
    anomaly
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    Re: Down With The Dalai Lama

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    yeah, I noticed at the start that they had other scales of evil coming up. Will have to find the other ones today.

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