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Thread: Barack Obama's Unconstitutional as POTUS

  1. #1
    Jester2
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    Barack Obama's Unconstitutional as POTUS

    This week in federal court in Eastern Pennsylvania a legal case declared Barack Obama to not have legal US citizenship. He is therefore neleigable to seek the office of the POTUS.


    Argue the merits of the case on the other thread:
    http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=41046

    This thread asks two questions:

    Since Barack Obama is not a US citizen what who should he/democrats call to replace him?

    If Barack Obama continues and illegally and unconstitutionally becomes POTUS, how will congress and our laws act on this process of electing a man that is technically ineligable to be President?

  2. #2
    Senior Member yaaarrrgg's Avatar
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    Re: Barack Obama's Unconstitutional as POTUS

    The basis of that ruling is what's known as an argument from ignorance. For example, if you don't send me all your underwear, you admit that you wear female undergarments. Given that I've received none as of yet, it's admitted you are a little fruity.

    ETA: Naturally Biden would replace him if something did happen to him, in the worst case.

  3. #3
    Jester2
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    Re: Barack Obama's Unconstitutional as POTUS

    ETA: Naturally Biden would replace him if something did happen to him, in the worst case.

    One would think but he would have gotten into the VP unconstitutionally. Will he be accepted as the Pres, and then who do you think Biden would pick to be his VP?

    Hillary?

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    Senior Member yaaarrrgg's Avatar
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    Re: Barack Obama's Unconstitutional as POTUS

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester View Post
    One would think but he would have gotten into the VP unconstitutionally. Will he be accepted as the Pres, and then who do you think Biden would pick to be his VP?

    Hillary?
    Given that Hillary's supporter is waging the lawsuit, and her husband appointed the judge, I don't think most democrats would see that as a legitimate choice.

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    Senior Member Accountable's Avatar
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    Re: Barack Obama's Unconstitutional as POTUS

    She did come in second for the nomination.

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    LIFE IS SHORT...LIVE HARD Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: Barack Obama's Unconstitutional as POTUS

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester View Post
    One would think but he would have gotten into the VP unconstitutionally. Will he be accepted as the Pres, and then who do you think Biden would pick to be his VP?

    Hillary?
    The DNC would probably have to convene then re-nominate and I dont think theres any question they would stick with Biden. He himself did not participate in an unconstitutional act.

    Anyway it appears to be a moot point perpetuated by right wing zealots.
    See Below:


    Born in the U.S.A.
    August 21, 2008
    Updated: August 26, 2008
    The truth about Obama's birth certificate.
    Summary
    In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

    We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

    Analysis
    Since we first wrote about Obama's birth certificate on June 16, speculation on his citizenship has continued apace. Some claim that Obama posted a fake birth certificate to his Web page. That charge leaped from the blogosphere to the mainstream media earlier this week when Jerome Corsi, author of a book attacking Obama, repeated the claim in an Aug. 15 interview with Steve Doocy on Fox News.

    Corsi: Well, what would be really helpful is if Senator Obama would release primary documents like his birth certificate. The campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website. How is anybody supposed to really piece together his life?

    Doocy: What do you mean they have a "false birth certificate" on their Web site?

    Corsi: The original birth certificate of Obama has never been released, and the campaign refuses to release it.

    Doocy: Well, couldn't it just be a State of Hawaii-produced duplicate?

    Corsi: No, it's a -- there's been good analysis of it on the Internet, and it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce.


    Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery. Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails are:

    The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.
    It isn't signed.
    No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version.

    In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.
    The certificate number is blacked out.
    The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008.
    The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."

    Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.





    The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

    The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.

    The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process.

    We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.



    Blowup of certificate number
    Some of the conspiracy theories that have circulated about Obama are quite imaginative. One conservative blogger suggested that the campaign might have obtained a valid Hawaii birth certificate, soaked it in solvent, then reprinted it with Obama's information. Of course, this anonymous blogger didn't have access to the actual document and presents this as just one possible "scenario" without any evidence that such a thing actually happened or is even feasible.


    We also note that so far none of those questioning the authenticity of the document have produced a shred of evidence that the information on it is incorrect. Instead, some speculate that somehow, maybe, he was born in another country and doesn't meet the Constitution's requirement that the president be a "natural-born citizen."


    We think our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, who also dug into some of these loopy theories put it pretty well: "It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything’s possible. But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over."

    In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961:


    Obama's birth announcement



    The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.


    Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.

    Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn't tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.

    When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."

    –by Jess Henig, with Joe Miller
    Sources
    United States Department of State. "Application for a U.S. Passport." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

    State of Hawaii Department of Health. "Request for Certified Copy of Birth Record." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

    Hollyfield, Amy. "Obama's Birth Certificate: Final Chapter." Politifact.com. 27 Jun. 2008.
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    Premium Member flopstock's Avatar
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    Re: Barack Obama's Unconstitutional as POTUS

    I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
    Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.

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    Premium Member flopstock's Avatar
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    Re: Barack Obama's Unconstitutional as POTUS

    FactCheck.org does not carry more authority then a court of law, Nomad. There is no consequence to faking out fact check, is there?

    It really is curious that they just didn't produce and go on legal record with their proof once and for all.. it should have taken five minutes of one of their legal staffs interns time...

    Have someone ask McCain, if you want... I bet they have the documents at the ready -just waiting to be asked...
    I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
    Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.

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    LIFE IS SHORT...LIVE HARD Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: Barack Obama's Unconstitutional as POTUS

    [quote=flopstock;1033214]FactCheck.org does not carry more authority then a court of law, Nomad. There is no consequence to faking out fact check, is there?

    Of course. But the document exists thats why its not in the news. If it were a real issue not just a BTS conspiracy it would be forefront in the news.
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  10. #10
    JAB
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    Re: Barack Obama's Unconstitutional as POTUS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester View Post
    One would think but he would have gotten into the VP unconstitutionally. Will he be accepted as the Pres, and then who do you think Biden would pick to be his VP?

    Hillary?
    As there is nothing that disqualifies him from the Vice-Presidency, I don't see why Biden wouldn't then step in to the Pres. role if it were deemed Obama was no longer eligible. His role is to ascend to the role of POTUS if for some season the one elected can't fulfill the duties.

    Whether or not he's accepted.....that's another story.

    And no, I don't think Biden would ask Hillary to be his VP.

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