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Thread: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

  1. #3211
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Please take the time to read this first post and vote in the poll if you haven't yet.

  2. #3212
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    No, my belief is not based upon faith. I believe in two things:
    1 Fact
    2 Unknown


    Christianity is based upon hocus-pocus and ancient superstition.


    Not true. It is false narrative.


    No, the ones who wrote the Bible are liars. Jesus did not write the bible. He didn't tell such crazy stories.


    It never happened. He didn't perform any miracles. He didn't write the bible.
    1) Everyone bases their beliefs in part on faith because you don't know everything. Facts aught to lead you to the truth.

    2) I believe that Christianity is backed up by the facts, but there is also faith involved because God requires it. The evidence does NOT contradict Christianity.

    Ok so you are calling all of the eyewitness writers of the Bible liars? You don't think Jesus performed any miracles or I would assume you don't believe that He fulfilled any prophecies either? Jesus didn't pen the Bible, I agree with that, but The Holy Spirit did inspire them to write it. On that I will disagree with you.

    How is it that all of these men bold face lied about Christ fulfilling prophecies, performing miracles, died and rose again and not ONE historian or person from that day refuted these things? There were thousands of people following Him around all of the time to see a miracle and or heal them.

    Question: What is your source for your beliefs?
    Question: Have you seen the Secular, non Biblical writings of Christ?

  3. #3213
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Happy Sunday! Find a good Bible Believing Church and attend today!

  4. #3214
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    Post Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    1) Everyone bases their beliefs in part on faith because you don't know everything. Facts aught to lead you to the truth.

    2) I believe that Christianity is backed up by the facts, but there is also faith involved because God requires it. The evidence does NOT contradict Christianity.

    Ok so you are calling all of the eyewitness writers of the Bible liars? You don't think Jesus performed any miracles or I would assume you don't believe that He fulfilled any prophecies either? Jesus didn't pen the Bible, I agree with that, but The Holy Spirit did inspire them to write it. On that I will disagree with you.

    How is it that all of these men bold face lied about Christ fulfilling prophecies, performing miracles, died and rose again and not ONE historian or person from that day refuted these things? There were thousands of people following Him around all of the time to see a miracle and or heal them.

    Question: What is your source for your beliefs?
    Question: Have you seen the Secular, non Biblical writings of Christ?
    I am responding to the relevant parts of your reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    Everyone bases their beliefs in part on faith because you don't know everything.
    No. That is not true. Agnostics accept both facts and the unknown but do not fill in the blanks with superstition and hocus pocus. What is unknown will remain unknown until facts are presented. Their "faith" (if you insist on referring to it as such) is that the whole truth will either be revealed or it won't. I think acceptance with tolerance represents it better than the term faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    I believe that Christianity is backed up by the facts ..
    "Facts"? The facts back up the existence of Christ as having been one of the thousands of prophets.

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    ... but there is also faith involved because God requires it.
    There are no facts that god requires anything from mankind.


    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    The evidence does NOT contradict Christianity.
    The evidence contradicts the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    Ok so you are calling all of the eyewitness writers of the Bible liars?
    I am calling the authors of the bible tellers of fantasy. Whether or not they are liars depends upon what they expect of the reader.

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    You don't think Jesus performed any miracles
    I do not BELIEVE Jesus performed many miracles. You seem to be very selective in using terms such as "think" and "believe". Are you intentionally being evasive?

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    I would assume you don't believe that He fulfilled any prophecies ....
    There is absoulety no doubt about it. Jesus DID NOT fulfill the prophecies.

  5. #3215
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    So then do you believe in Evolution or don't you?

    The facts show that Christ was not a mere prophet, but in Fact, God in the flesh. I am curious to know, if you don't believe that the Bible is true, what leads you to believe that He was a prophet? The facts that God requires FAITH in Him from mankind is in the Bible.

    You can assert that the evidence contradicts the Bible, but it doesn't. What evidence do you have that goes directly contradictory to the Bible?

    Well, the writers of the Bible say that the things recorded are true and they are eyewitnesses to the events, so you are in fact calling them liars.

    I can prove that Jesus Christ did fulfill the prophecies. He actually fulfilled over 100 in His first coming alone. I can give you a list of them.

    So, since you don't believe eyewitnesses tell the truth, I ask you, should all of the eyewitness testimony that is submitted in courts of law each day be omitted?

  6. #3216
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    Post Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    So then do you believe in Evolution or don't you?
    I don't believe in anything that hasn't been fully proven. I believe in the parts that are proven.

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    The facts show that Christ was not a mere prophet, but in Fact, God in the flesh.
    This is utterly ridculous not to mention it is a blasphemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    I am curious to know, if you don't believe that the Bible is true …..
    The facts disprove the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    …. what leads you to believe that He was a prophet?
    Historical facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    The facts that God requires FAITH in Him from mankind is in the Bible.
    The bible is a work of fantasy. You are not following this dialogue with any degree of earnest.


    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    You can assert that the evidence contradicts the Bible, but it doesn't.
    It does.


    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    What evidence do you have that goes directly contradictory to the Bible?

    Scientific fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    Well, the writers of the Bible say that the things recorded are true and they are eyewitnesses to the events, so you are in fact calling them liars.
    No, the writers are not eyewitnesses. The writers claim that others claim that there were eyewitnesses. If I tell you that my neighbour says his brother can fly by flapping his arms but I haven't actually seen it myself, who is the liar? Me? My neighbour? His brother?

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    I can prove that Jesus Christ did fulfill the prophecies. He actually fulfilled over 100 in His first coming alone. I can give you a list of them.
    No. This is not true. What might be true is that you are unaware of the deeds upon which the prophecies insist.

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    So, since you don't believe eyewitnesses tell the truth ….

    This is a very shoddy statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    ….. I ask you, should all of the eyewitness testimony that is submitted in courts of law each day be omitted?
    Bring them before the courts of law and we shall see. Do you agree to the right of cross-examination or is your fundamental argument that their testimony is written for the benefit of second or third hand “witnesses” and therefore UNQUESTIONABLE? I remind you that this theoretical court is interested in FACTS, not hearsay, what the authors claim, what those who told the authors claim, or what those who told the claimers claim. Each, in turn, will need to be questioned in this court of law.

    Religion is for those who are afraid of dying and any hocus-pocus will do, therefore I do not wish to deny them their need for comfort. For those of us who are tolerant of life and accept death it is an entirely different story. We accept fact alone.

  7. #3217
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    I don't believe in anything that hasn't been fully proven. I believe in the parts that are proven.



    This is utterly ridculous not to mention it is a blasphemy.



    The facts disprove the bible.



    Historical facts.



    The bible is a work of fantasy. You are not following this dialogue with any degree of earnest.




    It does.





    Scientific fact.



    No, the writers are not eyewitnesses. The writers claim that others claim that there were eyewitnesses. If I tell you that my neighbour says his brother can fly by flapping his arms but I haven't actually seen it myself, who is the liar? Me? My neighbour? His brother?



    No. This is not true. What might be true is that you are unaware of the deeds upon which the prophecies insist.




    This is a very shoddy statement.



    Bring them before the courts of law and we shall see. Do you agree to the right of cross-examination or is your fundamental argument that their testimony is written for the benefit of second or third hand “witnesses” and therefore UNQUESTIONABLE? I remind you that this theoretical court is interested in FACTS, not hearsay, what the authors claim, what those who told the authors claim, or what those who told the claimers claim. Each, in turn, will need to be questioned in this court of law.

    Religion is for those who are afraid of dying and any hocus-pocus will do, therefore I do not wish to deny them their need for comfort. For those of us who are tolerant of life and accept death it is an entirely different story. We accept fact alone.
    None of it is proven except the stuff that Creationists already agree with. Look at my discussion with Spot in the "Creationism Disproves Evolution" thread.

    It's not Blasphemy to actually believe God. So, are you saying that questioning why you believe Jesus was a prophet, but not God is also Blasphemy? How so? Do you realize that Jesus Christ quoted the Scriptures as authoritative from God and expected us to believe it?

    You didn't answer the question, If as you say, the facts disprove the Bible, why do you believe that Jesus Christ was a prophet? What is your source for that belief?

    Which Historical facts lead you to believe that He was a prophet, but not who He says He is? Is He a lying prophet?

    I am following the dialogue as it comes and with my own thoughts.

    Which evidence contradicts the Bible being true? Give me some false assertions that the Bible makes.

    It is a Scientific Fact that matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed via the Laws of Thermodynamics and Conservation of Energy. Yet matter and energy exist. Do you believe this supports God's existence?

    You can make the claim that they weren't the eyewitnesses, but the early Church would never have accepted their writings as authentic if they weren't really written by the eyewitnesses. It's the same reason why the Gospel of Mary, Judas and the others were EXCLUDED because they were NOT written by the actual eyewitnesses, but rather they were written 200 years after the events. They certainly were NOT second hand or third hand witnesses. Completely false.

    One of the Greatest Lawyers of all time examined the Resurrection of Christ and concluded that it had more evidence that it is true than any other event in ancient history.

  8. #3218
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    Unhappy Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    None of it is proven except the stuff that Creationists already agree with. Look at my discussion with Spot in the "Creationism Disproves Evolution" thread.

    It's not Blasphemy to actually believe God. So, are you saying that questioning why you believe Jesus was a prophet, but not God is also Blasphemy? How so? Do you realize that Jesus Christ quoted the Scriptures as authoritative from God and expected us to believe it?

    You didn't answer the question, If as you say, the facts disprove the Bible, why do you believe that Jesus Christ was a prophet? What is your source for that belief?

    Which Historical facts lead you to believe that He was a prophet, but not who He says He is? Is He a lying prophet?

    I am following the dialogue as it comes and with my own thoughts.

    Which evidence contradicts the Bible being true? Give me some false assertions that the Bible makes.

    It is a Scientific Fact that matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed via the Laws of Thermodynamics and Conservation of Energy. Yet matter and energy exist. Do you believe this supports God's existence?

    You can make the claim that they weren't the eyewitnesses, but the early Church would never have accepted their writings as authentic if they weren't really written by the eyewitnesses. It's the same reason why the Gospel of Mary, Judas and the others were EXCLUDED because they were NOT written by the actual eyewitnesses, but rather they were written 200 years after the events. They certainly were NOT second hand or third hand witnesses. Completely false.

    One of the Greatest Lawyers of all time examined the Resurrection of Christ and concluded that it had more evidence that it is true than any other event in ancient history.
    Your whole response comes down to this simple and repetitive, red herring theme of yours > > > > >

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    Which Historical facts lead you to believe that He was a prophet, but not who He says He is? Is He a lying prophet?
    The answer to your question is (and always will be) in the very simple FACT that Jesus did not write the bible. Basing credence of a labyrinth of concocted events, primitive superstition, and pure fantasy on a work of fiction lends not an once of weight to the reams upon reams of hocus-pocus accredited to Jesus Christ. The foundation upon which the polytheistic trinity claims to be one god is as ridiculous as is supernatural water into wine and resurrections.

    As I did say in my previous post, I am not in the business of dislodging your "faith" because I am sympathetic to those whose fear of dying and whose lives seem without purpose otherwise crave a "reason for being". I am merely stating the facts as they are. If what I have to say is too devastating for your "faith" to continue then perhaps I should end this dialogue here and now.

  9. #3219
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    Your whole response comes down to this simple and repetitive, red herring theme of yours > > > > >



    The answer to your question is (and always will be) in the very simple FACT that Jesus did not write the bible. Basing credence of a labyrinth of concocted events, primitive superstition, and pure fantasy on a work of fiction lends not an once of weight to the reams upon reams of hocus-pocus accredited to Jesus Christ. The foundation upon which the polytheistic trinity claims to be one god is as ridiculous as is supernatural water into wine and resurrections.

    As I did say in my previous post, I am not in the business of dislodging your "faith" because I am sympathetic to those whose fear of dying and whose lives seem without purpose otherwise crave a "reason for being". I am merely stating the facts as they are. If what I have to say is too devastating for your "faith" to continue then perhaps I should end this dialogue here and now.
    I would disagree with you that Jesus didn't write the Bible. I believe He DID write the Bible via the Holy Spirit and inspiration, howbeit, Jesus didn't pen it.

    How do you explain the Secular and other writings that support Christianity from Christ's day and shortly thereafter?

    I am not afraid of dying because I know who my Lord and Savior is. IF I were not a Christian, I would be terrified of death, not because I would cease to exist, but because I believe I would exist forever in torment and suffering.

    Your words are not devastating to my faith as you have not disproven my faith in the slightest. You may believe it's a bunch of lies, but I know better. You making a bunch of false assertions that contradicts the actual evidence doesn't bother me in the slightest. I know it's false. No doubt in my mind because I KNOW God.

    God has directed my life and revealed Himself to me in many ways. I have even seen true blue miracles in my family. Would you like to hear about one? See if you can explain it. What do you think?

  10. #3220
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    Post Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    I would disagree with you that Jesus didn't write the Bible. I believe He DID write the Bible via the Holy Spirit and inspiration, howbeit, Jesus didn't pen it.
    Hocus pocus. I don't write checks any longer. It cramps my fingers so I let the holy spirit do it for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    How do you explain the Secular and other writings that support Christianity from Christ's day and shortly thereafter?
    I have adequately answered this question already.
    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    I am not afraid of dying because I know who my Lord and Savior is. IF I were not a Christian, I would be terrified of death, not because I would cease to exist, but because I believe I would exist forever in torment and suffering.
    So, if you didn't believe in religious superstition, you'd be afraid of death. That is EXACTLY what I told you.
    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    Your words are not devastating to my faith …..
    That is because I am being diplomatic and trying to avoid ruining the comfort of your blanket. I explained that to you already. Perhaps you ought to thank me.
    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    …. as you have not disproven my faith in the slightest.
    Your only proof is based upon a book that Jesus Christ didn't even write. The bible is a work of mythology.
    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    You may believe it's a bunch of lies …..
    Why do you insist on saying it is all lies and attributing it to me?
    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    …. but I know better.
    You don't actually know anything. You admitted it yourself that your convictions a based upon faith.
    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    I also know God.
    That is not true. You don't even speak to him. You are compelled to ask Jesus to relay your message.
    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    He has directed my life and revealed Himself to me in many ways.
    As I said, you have no communication with god.
    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    I have even seen true blue miracles in my family. Would you like to hear about one?
    No thank you. I have seen Vincent Vega and Jules Winnfield leave the apartment together unscathed already. That's enough for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    See if you can explain it. What do you think?
    I am certain that you have a perfectly sufficient superstitious explanation.

    There is really only one western religion .... and that is Judaism. Christianity is nothing more than an amendment. Protestants made an additional amendment to the first one and Islam is also an amendment. In essence, Christianity and Islam are cults.

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