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Thread: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

  1. #3271
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die


    Are there ACTUAL parallels between the Jesus and Horus stories?

    Hardly. For those unfamiliar with the Horus story, Horus is a character in Egyptian mythology, the son of the gods Isis and Osiris. There actually appear to be multiple dieties named 'Horus', but the one who is the son of Isis and Osiris is the one the critics claim influenced the Jesus story. �*For a quick and unbiased debunking of this story, go to any search engine and find a site on Egyptian mythology and read the Horus story for yourself (I've provided some links at the bottom of the page), or check the mythology section at your local library (go ahead, I dare you!). Acharya S's book "The Christ Conspiracy" is the apparent source of this list, but the author provides evidentiarly footnotes for only five of the claims, and those footnotes frequently disagree with her own claims!
    By the way, I had a discussion about this list with Acharya S, the author of the book "The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold". To view a text of our discussion, go to this site.

    Here are the claims of parallels between Jesus and Horus, with my responses:

    1) Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.

    Let’s take this one apart and deal with each separate issue:

    Horus’ mother was not a virgin. She was married to Osiris, and there is no reason to suppose she was abstinent after marriage. �*Horus was, per the story, miraculously conceived. �*Seth had killed and dismembered Osiris, then Isis put her husband's dead body back together and had intercourse with it.�*In some versions, she used a hand-made phallus since she wasn't able to find that part of her husband. �*So while it was a miraculous conception, it was not a�*virgin birth.

    Horus was given three different birthdates in mythology, one of which does correspond to December 25th. �*But since Jesus wasn't, per the evidence, born on 12/25, this isn't a parallel.

    "Meri" (technically "Mr-ee") is the egyptian word for "beloved" and was apparently applied to Isis prior to Jesus' time, as a title, not as part of her name. �*But since there were probably thousands of women between Horus' time and Jesus' with a name or title that was a variation on "Mary", there's no real reason to suppose that Jesus' mother was named after Isis in particular. �*Even if, hypothetically, the Gospel authors themselves fabricated Jesus' mother and decided to name her "Mary", it's far more likely that they named her after other women from around their time named "Mary" than it is that they named her after "Isis-Meri"

    Horus was born in a swamp, not a cave/manger. �*Acharya's footnotes for this point only make the claim that Jesus was born in a cave, and say nothing about Horus being born in�*one.

    Horus' birth was not announced by a star in the east
    There were no “three wise men” at Horus’ birth, or at Jesus’ for that matter (the Bible never gives the number of wise men, and they showed up at Jesus’ home, not at the manger, probably when Jesus was a year or two old).

    Acharya's source for the last two claims appears to be Massey, who says�*"the Star in the East that arose to announce the birth of the babe (Jesus) was Orion, which is therefore called the star of Horus. That was once the star of the three kings; for the 'three kings' is still a name of three stars in Orion's belt . . . " �*Massey's apparently getting mixed up, and then the critics are misinterpreting it. �*Orion is not a star, but a constellation, of which there are three stars in a row making up the belt of Orion. �*However, there is no evidence that these three stars were called the "Three Kings" prior to Jesus' time, nor even prior to the 19th century, for that matter.
    And even if there is a specific star called 'the star of Horus', there's no legend stating that it announced Horus' birth (as the critics are claiming) or that the three stars in Orion's belt attended Horus' birth in any way.

    2) His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph").

    First of all, there is no parallel between the Egyptian name “Seb” and the Hebrew name “Joseph”, other than the fact that they’re common names. Also, Seb was Osiris’ father, not Horus’.

    3) He was of royal descent.

    This one’s true! �*But it's not really a comparison to Jesus. �*When followers speak of Jesus being of 'royal descent', they usually mean His being a descendent of King David, an earthly king. �*Horus was, according to the myth, descended from heavenly royalty (as Jesus was), being the son of the main god.

    4) At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.

    He never taught in any temple and was never baptized. �*Also, Jesus didn't 'disappear' in the years between His teaching in the temple and baptism. He worked humbly as a carpenter.

    5) Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" ("John the Baptist"), who was decapitated.
    Again, Horus was never baptized. There is no “Anup the Baptizer” in the story.

    6) He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" (the two "Johns").

    Horus had four disciples (called ‘Heru-Shemsu’). There’s another reference to sixteen followers, and a group of followers called ‘mesnui’ (blacksmiths) who join Horus in battle, but are never numbered. But there’s no reference to twelve followers or any of them being named “Anup” or “Aan”.

    7) He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris"), from the dead.

    He did perform miracles, but he never exorcised demons or raised his father from the dead. Also, Osiris is never referred to as ‘El-Azarus’ or ‘El-Osiris’ (clearly an attempt to make his name more closely resemble the Bible’s “Lazarus”).

    8) Horus walked on water.
    No, he did not.

    9) His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child."

    Horus was never referred to as “Iusa” (nor was anyone in Egyptian history - the word does not exist) or “Holy Child”.

    10) He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa."

    Horus never delivered such a sermon, and, as pointed out above, he was never referred to as “Iusa”.

    11) Horus was transfigured on the Mount.

    No, he was not.

    12) He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.

    Horus was never crucified. There’s an unofficial story in which he dies and is cast in pieces into the water, then later fished out by a crocodile at Isis’ request. This unofficial story is the only one in which he dies at all.

    13) He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God’s Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.

    The only titles Horus is given are “Great God”, “Chief of the Powers”, “Master of Heaven”, and “Avenger of His Father”. None of the above titles are in any Egyptian mythology.

    14) He was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish ("Ichthys"), Lamb and Lion.

    He was never referred to as “the fisher”, and there are no lamb or lion in any of the stories. �*Acharya S.'s footnotes on this claim only show an association with fish (which is that Horus WAS a fish, unlike Jesus), with no evidence of his being called 'the fisher' or having any association with a�*lamb or lion.

    15) He came to fulfill the Law.

    There was no “law” he was supposed to fulfill.

    16) Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One."

    He was never referred to by either of these titles. �*"Krst", in Egyptian, means "burial", by the way. �*It wasn't a title.

    17) Like Jesus, "Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years."

    No mention of this in Egyptian mythology.

    Encyclopedia Mythica: Horus
    Egyptian Mythology: Horus
    The Eye Of Horus
    Horus: He Who Is Above
    Tektonics: Horus, Isis, Osiris
    Egyptian Book of the Dead

  2. #3272
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Some would try to disprove the Biblical Jesus Christ, but there isn't a single ancient writing predating Christianity that matches the Biblical story.

  3. #3273
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Every single time someone come up with a claim attempting to debunk the Bible, it's proven to be false.

  4. #3274
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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    Israel's Kingdom Gospel and Our Grace Gospel


    During the dark ages from about 500 AD to about 1500 AD, the public was not permitted to have access to the Bible. Only the clergy could look upon the Word of God. They then dispensed only tiny morsels to the masses, often twisting the meaning for their own financial or political gain. By the time the reformation began, virtually all Biblical truth had been lost or distorted. After the reformers got Bibles back into the hands of the common man, people began to try to reconstruct the proper church doctrines which had been lost. This was very difficult because they had been steeped in all manner of heresies for centuries. Different groups had varying degrees of success, correcting some areas of doctrine while failing to correct others. Some false doctrines were changed into new, different false doctrines. In any case, not one of the hundreds of denominations or sects has ever made it back to the pure doctrine of the early church. Perhaps I should not use the word "pure", since we can see from Galatians 3 and 1 Corinthians 5 that errant doctrine was creeping into some local churches even at that early date.

    One reason so many Christians do not understand the Bible today is that we have a tendency to be like the clergy back in Galileo's day. Galileo's discovery that the sun, not the earth, is the center of the solar system, was against the church doctrine of the time. For centuries, the clergy had taught that the earth was the center of the universe even though the Bible never says this. The clergy guarded their ignorance so carefully that they would not even look into Galileo's telescope to see his evidence.
    Likewise, most of the church today perceives itself to be not only God's people today, but the only people God ever had or ever will have. So they read the Bible passages and see the present-day church as being the total focus of all scripture. But they fail to realize that there will be people saved from before the great flood, from ancient times, from Old Testament Israel, from Gentile nations during the Old Testament, out of the future tribulation, and out of the future 1000 year reign of Christ on earth. None of these millions and millions of believers were or will be what we would call "Christians". While we in the present church do hold a very special place, we are not the sole focus of all scripture or even all of that portion of scripture commonly referred to as the New Testament.

    The key points that are addressed in this article are listed below. Some of these statements may be surprising to some Christians, but I believe that the given scripture references and the pages that follow will make them clear. After all, I don't expect anyone to believe something just because I say it. I would hope that we could all be like the Bereans of which Acts 17:11-12 says, "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed ...."

    1. The Apostle Paul and the Apostle Peter each preached the gospel, the good news. But upon close examination of just what they were saying, it is apparent that their messages were different from one another. Yet they did not contradict one another, because they spoke their respective gospels to two separate audiences. In this article, we will examine these two unique messages and the two audiences to which they were given.

    2. Our gospel is that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, gave His life as the perfect sacrifice to pay for our sins, was crucified, and rose from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This is what apostle Paul preached. There is only one gospel that we are to proclaim today. However, there have been other valid gospels in the past (Galatians 3:8, Matthew 9:35, and 10:5-7) and there will be others in the future (Matthew 24:14 and Revelation 14:6-7) after the rapture of the church.

    3. Even though they had been plainly told by Jesus Christ beforehand, the twelve apostles did not know that Jesus Christ was going to die or rise from the dead (Matthew 16:21-22, Luke 18:33-34, and John 20:9). It was hidden from them by God. Of course, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ are essential parts of Paul's gospel. Also recall that the disciples preached a gospel during Jesus Christ's earthly ministry. But it definitely was not Paul's gospel, because they did not know Paul's gospel.

    4. Before our Lord Jesus Christ revealed it to Paul, the other apostles did not know that Jesus Christ's crucifixion was the sacrifice for our sins. In the book of Acts, Peter never mentions sacrifice, or propitiation, or the blood of Jesus Christ. He never associates Christ's death with remission of sins. Our gospel by which we are saved was a mystery revealed by our Lord Jesus Christ to Paul. It was not known by any man, not even the twelve apostles or Satan himself (1 Corinthians 2:7-8).

    5. Paul was the apostle of the Gentiles (Acts 9:15 and Romans 11:13). Jesus Christ and the apostles prior to Paul preached only to the people of Israel, with just a few exceptions (Matthew 10:5-6, Matthew 15:24, John 12:20-24, Acts 2:5, 2:36, 3:12, and 11:19).

    6. After Jesus Christ ascended into heaven, Peter preached that the people of Israel should believe that Jesus Christ was who He said He was, the Messiah. They should repent, and be baptized with water (Acts 2:38). If they all did this, then Jesus Christ would return and bring in the kingdom just as the Old Testament prophets had foretold (Acts 3:19-21).

    7. The twelve apostles were under the law of Moses and continued to zealously follow the law all of their lives. But Paul taught the Gentiles "... ye are not under the law, but under grace" (Romans 6:14).

    8. From Abraham, through the Old Testament, during Christ's earthly ministry, and the early chapters of Acts, there were exceptions, but for the most part, God dealt only with the nation of Israel. Israel alone is the focus of the early chapters of the book of Acts. The ministry to the Gentiles did not even begin until more than 12 years after Christ's earthly ministry, well after the conversion of Saul.

    The Old Testament Kingdom Program

    God promised the people of Israel a Land, a King, and a Kingdom. Their nation was to eventually become a nation of priests to bring salvation to the Gentile nations. In the Old Testament, it was no mystery that Israel would someday spread the Word of God to all nations. But, it was prophesied to be after the Messiah had come and set up His kingdom centered in Jerusalem. The people of Israel would then be sent to all nations to lead the Gentiles to their God in Jerusalem. But all Israel did not receive and has not received Him yet. So the fulfillment of the old program has been postponed. The mystery was that God planned to go to the Gentiles (through the apostle Paul) when Israel rejected the kingdom. After this dispensation of grace (sometimes called the "church age") ends at the rapture, God will resume the old program. That is a very short summary. But now, since it is so beneficial to understanding the scriptures, we will go back and examine the Old Testament kingdom program from the time it began.
    Around 2000 BC, about 350 years after the great flood, God chose one man out of all of the people on the earth from whom He would make a special nation. That man was Abram, whom God would later rename Abraham. God gave Abram the promise that he would become a great nation. "And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing ... and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed" (Genesis 12:2-3). We can see from this verse that God had all nations in mind. But He chose one man and his descendants (one nation) to use to reach the rest of mankind. Then when Abram was in the land of Canaan, "... the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed I will give this land ..." (Genesis 12:7).

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