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Thread: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

  1. #3451
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    I will respond later, but in the mean time could you list the verses you are referring to?
    Another request to go down the rabbit hole.
    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

    I have only one thing to do and that's
    Be the wave that I am and then
    Sink back into the ocean

    Fiona Apple

  2. #3452
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    First of all taking current events & cherry picking certain verses to try to crowbar them into meaning what you want them to mean has no more credibility than the horoscope of any bit of gutter press rags. They mean whatever you want them to mean.

    Secondly, Exodus is full of instances where God is ordering babies to be torn from the wombs of their Mothers & for innocent infants to be slain. That sounds very much like primitive abortion to me. The actions of a most benevolent God?

    If God is all powerful, then how come a mere mortal is able to defy his will by bringing about a termination? He can't be all powerful if a mere human can override his will.

    I prophesise you will then move onto the matter of Free Will. Well, Theists will agree that God knows everything. He knows in advance what every decision will be, as that was always part of his great plan. That simply goes to show that there is no Free Will, as he has already preset the outcome. If there really were to be Free Will then God would never know the outcome, and therefore could not be considered omniscient. On the other hand, what would we expect to see if there were no God? Simple. We would see exactly what we DO see.

    The matter of Free Will also reflects on the matter of Prayer. If God were to be omniscient he would already know whether a prayer were to be answered or not. Therefore, what would the purpose of the prayer be if the outcome is going to be the same?

    Furthermore, the power of Prayer has been tested under Laboratory Conditions, and it has been found to have the same results as would be expected from mere chance - EXCEPT when someone knows that someone is praying for them, when it has been shown to have a detrimental effect, as the psychsomatic syndrome takes effect.

    Anyone who says that there is evidence for God is self delusional because if there were such evidence there would be no such thing as Atheism as Atheism is, by definition, the condition of not believing in a God because of lack of evidence to the contrary. And the Bible cannot be considered as evidence in the same way as the Defendant in a Court Trial cannot expect his plea of Not Guilty as being evidence. In this case, God is on trial on a charge of existing. Due to a lack of evidence I find him Not Guilty.

    If a God does exist, then by everything that it says about him in the Bible he is a malevolent entity who is a hypocritical sadist. An entity who makes laws about not killing, then orders Genocidal Slaughter. An entity which condones slavery. An entity who condemns infinite generations because of something one of their ancestors did after he tricked them into committing a sin, before they had no notion of what sin was.
    Ok, first of all, I am not 'Cherry Picking' certain events. Every year or two there is a new 'Super Virus' that is going to cause havoc around the world. This year it is the Corona Virus. The Swine Flu a few years ago. Mad Cow a few years ago. Aids in the 1980s & 1990s was really a scary thought. The point is the it just supports what Christ said that there will be pestilences. It's not a stretch. Famines are going on all over the world as well in Africa and the 3rd world. Earthquakes in diverse places. The frequency of earthquakes has gone up exponentially in the last 100 years.

    Where in Exodus does God tell the Jews to tear babies from their mother's womb? I would like to see those verses.

    God is all powerful, but He is allowing evil in the world right now in order to judge the world in the end. After the Judgement, the world will be restored to what it was originally supposed to be. But those who will not serve the Lord will not be able to enjoy it.

    I could move on to free will and it would be valid as well. Actually, you are wrong. Freewill can exist simultaneously with predestination, which is what I actually believe to be the case. BOTH are present in this verse.

    Ro 8:29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    I have heard studies about prayer that DO show that there is a 10% increase in a positive effect, but even IF you are right, that doesn't mean that the outcome of many situations weren't changed by prayer. It is possible that God could switch outcomes within two separate situations based upon one praying and the other not praying. But that is just a thought. I can tell you that prayer changes things because I have seen it in my own life and family in undeniable ways.

    The Bible says that Ps 19:1 ¶ "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork."

    Ro 1:20"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

    There were a few instances in the OT where God ordered it because of the consequences that would happen if they left those particular people. But Israel didn't obey God and had nothing but trouble from them continually for generations. God doesn't condone involuntary slavery. He allowed voluntary slavery to pay off debts and it was a period of 7 years. There was 1 or more incidence where God did command Israel to enslave a group of people as a judgement upon them for their deeply wicked things that they had done. God doesn't want to condemn anyone but death is a consequence of sin inherited from Adam yes. But because God DOES care, He went though all of the trouble to form Israel and deal with their repeated rebellion to bring forth a Savior, Jesus Christ who was God's very Son, whom the Father loved very dearly. He allowed Him to leave His throne in heaven to live as a poor man, be mocked, beaten, tortured and killed so that we could be saved from our sins. He calls men to spread the Gospel to warn people, in spite of the ridicule and mocking and sometimes physical harm and death that comes upon them so that the world could be saved. But God does give us free will to choose.

  3. #3453
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    The Seven Dispensations
    The story of Man's Failure - and God's Grace - as demonstrated in all ages
    ^ v Christ returns Christ The Great
    Beginning Call of Ascension | in the air. returns White Throne
    of civilization Abram The Law of Christ | ^ to earth Judgment
    | | given to ^ Descent of the Rapture of | Rev 20:11
    Creation | Landing | Moses The | Holy Spirit the church | | A new
    of man | of the ark | Ex 20:1-17 Cross | v | | Christ's | eternal
    | | | | | __|__ ^ | | | Millenial | Heaven
    |___________|____________|____________|___________ _|_______________| | v________________________|_______________v________ _______| --> -->
    Gen 2:25 | Gen 3:22 | Gen 9:5 | Gen 12:1-3 | Gal 3:19 | | Eph 3:2 Rom 6:14 | Mat 24:21 | Dan 2:44 | Rev 21
    | | | | | | | | Final
    Expulsion The Confusion Slaves Israel Fall of Confusion Armageddon rebellion
    from Eden Flood of tongues in Egypt Dispersed Jerusalem of Religions crushed
    Dispensation Opening Event Man's Responsibility Man's Failure Man's Tendency Closing Event Personal Salvation

    Rom 5:12 God creates man
    Gen 1:26,27
    ***2:7,25 Believe & Obey
    Gen 2:15-17 Innocence Lost
    Gen 3:6,7 Away from God
    Gen 3:9,10 Judgment-
    Expelled from Eden
    Gen 3:17-19
    ***3:22-24 By Grace through Faith-
    Substitutionary sacrifice:
    - The blood of the Lamb,
    ***Gen 3:21
    - The promise of the Seed,
    ***Gen 3:15;*4:25

    Rom 2:15 Abel offers a lamb.
    Cain murders Abel.
    Gen 4:2-15 Believe & Obey
    Gen 4:4-7
    Heb 11:4 Conscience defiled
    Gen 6:5-7 Away from God
    Gen 6:11-13 Judgment- The Flood
    Gen 7:11-12,23 By Grace through Faith-
    Gen 6:8
    Heb 11:4-7
    1Pet 3:18-22

    Rom 13:1-7 Noah -worships God
    -receives a covenant
    and responsibility
    Gen 8:20-22 Believe & Obey
    Gen 9:1-6 Personal disorder
    ***Gen 9:20-23
    Societal disorder
    ***Gen 11:1-4 Away from God-
    'Man's Failure'
    references apply. Judgment-
    of tongues
    Gen 11:5-9 By Grace through Faith-
    The line of the Seed:
    Gen 9:26;*11:10-32

    Num 23:19
    Mic 7:20
    Rom 11:29 God -calls Abram
    -gives him promises
    ***Gen 12:1-7;
    Promises repeated
    to Isaac & Jacob
    ***Gen 26:1-5
    ***28:10-15 Believe & Obey
    Gen 15:6
    Rom 4:3 Promised blessings
    pursued by
    fleshly means:
    -Abram,*Gen 16:2
    -Jacob,*Gen 27:19
    -Moses,*Acts 7:22-29 Away from God-
    God's promises disregarded:
    -Lot,*Gen 13:10-13
    -Esau,*Gen 25:31-34
    -The sons of Israel
    ***Gen 37:18-20
    -Israel's longing for Egypt
    ***Ex 16:2,3
    Summary:*Psa 106:1-15 Judgment-
    -Bondage in Egypt
    Ex 1:7-14;*2:23-25 By Grace through Faith-
    Rom 4:3-5
    Heb 11:8-22
    Gen 22:8,15-18
    Gen 49:8-12,18

    Rom 3:19,20 Israel promises
    to keep the Law
    Ex 19:1-8 Believe & Obey
    Deu 7:11-15, blessings
    Deu 8:11-20, cursings Law broken
    Ex 32:1-8
    Judg 21:25
    Psa 106:16-48 Away from God
    Dan 9:4-16 Judgment-
    -Israel captive in Assyria
    ***2Kin 17:1-18
    -Judah captive in Babylon
    ***2Kin 25:1-11
    -Jerusalem destroyed
    ***Mat 23:37-39 By Grace through Faith-
    the blood of the Lamb
    ***Ex 12:3
    ***Lev 17:11
    ***Heb 9:19-22
    ***Gal 4:4,5
    Examples of believers:
    -Moses,*Heb 11:23-40
    -David,*Rom 4:5-8
    Summary-*Gal 3:10-19

    John 1:17
    Titus 2:11-14
    1Pet 1:10-12 Christ -ascends
    -sends the Spirit
    ***Acts 1:1-9
    ***Acts 2:1-4
    -establishes His church
    ***1Cor 12:12,13
    ***Eph 3:1-10 Believe & Obey
    -for eternal life
    ***Acts 2:36-47
    ***John 6:28,29,47;*5:24
    ***Rom 5:1,2;*10:4
    ***Eph 2:8,9
    -for earthly living
    ***Rom 8:2-4
    ***Gal 2:20;*3:2,3 Apostasy-
    2Tim 4:3-4
    Heb 6:4-8 Away from God
    2Tim 3:13
    2Pet 2:1-3,17-22 The Bride of Christ
    caught up to meet Him.
    ***1The 4:16-17
    ***Rev 3:10
    Judgment- The apostate
    church enters the
    ***Rev 2:21-23
    ***Rev 3:15-16 By Grace through Faith-
    1Pet 1:18-21
    Isaiah 53
    Rom 3:20-26
    Rom 6:23
    also see references under
    'Man's Responsibility'
    (a special
    7 yr period)

    John 5:43 The man of sin
    is revealed
    1The 5:1-3
    2The 2:1-12
    Mat 24:21-22 In the Tribulation, man's failure comes to awful fruition:
    Innocence-*Men live the lie & call evil good (cp.*Gen 3:5).
    Conscience-*Corrupt minds ignore God's Word (Mat 24:37-39).
    Government-*The world unites with antichrist against God.
    Promise-*Israel is in the promised land, but in unbelief.
    Law-*The rebuilt Temple is given over to false worship.
    Grace-*The apostate church is aligned with the antichrist. Judgment- Christ casts out
    Satan & his false leaders.
    Rev 19:11-21
    Rev 20:1-3 Even in this terrible time,*
    many find salvation
    by Grace through Faith
    in the blood of the Lamb.
    Rev 7:14;*12:10,11

    Isa 9:6,7 Jesus Christ
    returns to earth
    as King of kings
    Mat 25:31-34
    Rev 20:4-6 Believe & Obey
    Isa 2:1-4
    Isa 11:1-16
    Isa 12:1-6
    Isa 55:1-3
    Zech 14:16-18 Even in the age of Righteousness,
    man turns away from Christ to follow
    Satan when given the opportunity.
    Rev 20:7-10 Judgment-
    -the final rebellion is crushed.
    -eternal destinies are decreed
    Rev 20:10-15 By Grace through Faith-
    Rev 21:22-27
    During the Kingdom age, the disorder of previous ages is corrected:
    Innocence-*God's truth is known by all men (Jer 31:34).
    Conscience-*God's people have holy hearts to serve Him (Jer 31:33).
    Government-*Christ rules from Jerusalem. Righteousness covers the earth.
    Promise-*Israel is in her land. Abrahamic & Davidic covenants are fulfilled.
    Law-*True temple worship declares that Christ has fulfilled the Law.
    Grace-*The true church is with Christ in His glory.

    NOTE:*To print this chart:
    Set your browser to display in a small font.
    Setup your printer for Landscape orientation.
    Set minimal page margins. If desired, adjust top and bottom margins (by trial and error) to place the page break between table sections.

    Go to*The Book*opening page.

  4. #3454
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    If you look at the above chart, you will see that God has changed is MO with man throughout history. We are currently in the age of Grace.

  5. #3455
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    This man is a GREAT Bible Teacher! He also shows how the Bible fits together perfectly as it was inspired by God Himself.

    Through The Bible With Les Feldick

  6. #3456
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    The Holy Spirit IS God:

    2Co 3:17 And the Lord is that Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

    The Holy Spirit is one with the Father and the Son:

    1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

    A Clear distinction is made between Christ and the Spirit. It says that believers are wash and sanctified by the Spirit:

    1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    The Holy Spirit raised Christ from the dead:

    1Pe 3:18 ¶ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    God raised Christ from the dead:

    Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    Therefore, the Spirit is God.

    He abides in believers by the Holy Spirit, signifying that the Spirit is God:

    1Jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

    God the Father, Son and Spirit present in the Creation of Man:

    Ge 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

    Let US go down and make man in OUR image. Think about it. Who is God talking to? The Trinity.

    God made man in His own image:

    Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

  7. #3457
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    It would be easier to highlight if I could use the bold feature.

  8. #3458
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Quote Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post
    It would be easier to highlight if I could use the bold feature.
    Everybody has the same problem. We've advised you of that several times. Please quit whining about the text editor.
    "Learn from the mistakes of others---you can never live long enough to make them all yourself."
    - Anon

  9. #3459
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Court says park cross stays because to remove it would be 'hostile to religion'

  10. #3460
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Register to remove this ad.
    I would be curious what your thoughts are on this article. Do you believe that religious speech should be protected in public places?

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