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Thread: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

  1. #3171
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    Xfrod I do not believe the Bible top be the inerrant word of God. We do learn of Jesus in the Bible but really very little., I believe that Jesus of Nazareth was a very historical person but not God. To make Jesus in to God is to demean the very wonderful person he was. It is also to demean the very name of God. You turn God into some evil monster who needs blood to be shed in order to assuage his petulant anger. What kind of God do you worship? Certainly it is not the God who tells us that his concerns are justice and compassion. Jesus himself has said that "You have heard it said . . . but I say . . . He changed the law.
    Here is the issue for you. There are 1-200 or more prophecies in the OT of Christ's first coming that came true. There are zero writings historical or otherwise that refute the eyewitness accounts that attest to these prophecies being fulfilled. Then you have the miracles that Jesus performed to prove His deity. Who could do these things but God? The biggest problem that you have is the resurrection of Christ. Thousands saw Him after His resurrection and many hundreds saw His ascension into heaven. Shortly thereafter, you have an explosion of Christianity which spread all around the world. Think about this. To proclaim Christ meant death and torture for many at that time. A man may give his life for a cause that he believes is true, but is in fact false, but no man would be wiling to give his life for what he KNOWS to be a lie. Had Christ not really risen from the dead, His followers would have stopped proclaiming His name, yet they didn't. They gave their lives and were beaten, tortured and killed for their faith. They wouldn't have done that had He not risen. If Christ IS indeed risen, then Christ is indeed God in the flesh, the promised Messiah from the OT.

    The entire Bible, from the OT to the New is about how God DID require a blood sacrifice because the life is in the blood of the animal. God does everything in a legal way in heaven and it MUST happen according to the laws of heaven. God the Father is the judge, satan is the prosecutor, Christ is the Attorney for those who place their faith in Him. If you don't have Christ, you have no Advocate and are therefore defenseless against satan's accusations before the Father in heaven.

    I think you are confusing a Christian proclaiming God's truth with the Christian being angry some how. It's not anger, it's a warning that's done out of LOVE for that person because God doesn't want that person to have to be punished, but God will have to punish them if they won't accept His pardon through Christ.

    Jesus fulfilled the law, now we are under God's Grace. Grace still requires you to place your faith in Christ for salvation, trusting in His sacrifice to pay for your sins that He died and rose again, shedding His blood for you.

    God is the one who sets the rules, not us. If you don't like the blood being the price, sorry, but that is the way it is. Jesus already gave it for you out of love for you. Trust Him.

  2. #3172
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Happy Sunday! Find a good Bible believing Church and attend.

  3. #3173
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    My trust in the Divine is based on my experiences of the Divine or the or Sacred. Just because the "Bible" claims to be from God does not make it so. Many of the ancient sacred scriptures make the same claim. Jesus was a very unique human being, and that is what he was. He had a unique relationship with God but he was not God. To make him into God is to slight the Divine and it is also a slight to make a slight against the most unique human who ever existed.
    The problem with saying that your trust in the Divine is based on your experience with the Divine is this: Everyone has different experiences. Muslims have different experiences than Christians for the most part, Buddhists have different experiences than Hindus, ect. i don't believe what the Bible says, merely because it says so. I believe it because it's proven it's self to be the very Word of God. Don't you find it to be an amazing coincidence that all of those details of Christ's life were known hundreds of years before His birth in the OT? How would you explain that other than that it's from God? What about Christ's miracles. How would you explain that? How do you explain the resurrection? Why do the secular writings from His day and shortly therafter support the Biblical claim, but directly contradict the quran? I would agree that Christ is the most unique human that ever lived The reasons above are my reason for believing that. What are your reasons for believing that?

  4. #3174
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Try to under stand the nature of "Midrash"

  5. #3175
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Try to understand the nature of "Midrash

  6. #3176
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Xfrod I was raised in the fundamentalist fold. Fundamentalism is in my view not the least bit credible.

  7. #3177
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Xfrod I simply have a different view. I do not agree with you. There are some 23000 variations of the Christian faith and many claiming to have the only or the sole truth. You are right there with the other 23999 others., You have failed to convince that of all those people that you and you alone have the sole handle on the truth. I'm sorry but that is a joke and that is what gives faith a bad name. Basically you follow a faith based on fear and are afraid of the truth.

  8. #3178
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    The stories in the Bible are just re-hashes of ones in other Religions, thousands of years older. Even if the people named as the supposed authors were to have existed (which I don't believe they did), then all they were doing was putting down a compliation of stories they had heard from other cultures, along with a bit of their own embellishment, which is how all legends originate.
    No they aren't except I will admit that the flood legends around the world may pre date the Biblical penning of the event, but they are not God inspired. Since there are flood legends around the world it really does point to the fact that there really was a world wide flood. The Bible says it was around 4,500 years ago. It wasn't penned in the Jewish, God inspired Scripture until Moses recorded it around 1400 BC. If they were merely penning down stories that were handed down as you claim, they wouldn't have known many of the things that we are now learning about the earth and the Universe. One such detail regarding the flood is how the "Fountains of the deep" were broken up at the time of the flood. You can view this tear in the earth by simply looking at Google Earth in the center of the Atlantic Ocean. There is a large tear in the bottom of the sea where the earth ripped open at the time of the flood and water that was inside of the earth sprang up. Interestingly, if you follow this tear in the earth it stops right at Israel.

    Genesis 7:11In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

    They wouldn't have known that the earth was round:

    Isaiah 40:22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

    They wouldn't have known that it hangs on nothing in outer space:

    Job 26:7He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

    They wouldn't have known many other scientific facts recorded thousands of years before their discovery.

    Such as the fact that a baby's blood clots more on the 8th day after birth than any other time in their life, which is why God commanded them to circumcise the males on the 8th day. There are many other things.

  9. #3179
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    Try to under stand the nature of "Midrash"
    I think we have had this conversation before. The Bible was completed around AD 90 and Midrash didn't come about until over 200 AD. I will admit that there are times when Jesus did use allegories to make a point and there are times when allegories are used. Many times the allegory is explained after it is used because there is always a literal meaning behind it.

  10. #3180
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    Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    Xfrod I was raised in the fundamentalist fold. Fundamentalism is in my view not the least bit credible.
    It makes me sad to know that you were abused by your Church or whatever. I am truly sorry that men used God as an excuse to abuse you. They will have to answer to God for it one day. I was a victim of legalism and Spiritual abuse as well. I could have easily turned away from my faith if it weren't for the fact that I knew that it was true and that the God of the Bible is real. I left the Church for 12 years, but never stopped believing. God never left my side and ultimately, He is the one who brought me back and gave me purpose. I came to realize that not all fundamental Churches are legalistic and abusive. I came to realize that I could serve God and that He wasn't about taking away all of the fun out of life. Although it's not God's first priority to make us happy and give us an easy life necessarily, His first priority is to prepare His followers for eternity I believe. It's sad to know that you once had the truth about the Bible and now reject it. You need to get back to the understanding of the Bible. Don't let anyone push you away from the Lord. I go to Church for God, not the people. If I were to go for them, I wouldn't go at all.

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